27 Replies Latest reply: Aug 8, 2012 4:38 PM by peds48 RSS

Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection

bkj1020

Does both the HR24-200 and the Directv Cinema connection kit have to be connected to the internet for full internet capabilities?

 

I was thinking as long as my Directv Cinema connection kit was connected to the internet that my receiver would only need to be connected to the kit or am I just totally confused?

  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    dcd

    With the Whole Home DVR service the Cinema Connection Kit need be connected to the signal coax in a single location and that single connection will provide router/Internet connection for all the HD boxes in the system.  Look on page 11 of the CCK manual for instructions.  Best bet is to install on the receiver that is closest to the router, thus improving the wireless link.  Remember, with Whole Home there is no Internet connection to any receiver, the connection occurs in the coax cable already connected, and the Kit connects to the coax as well, Ethernet is not used.

  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    bkj1020

    I don't have the wireless CCK since this was installed before the wireless was available.  I have the small CCK box that connects to the router via ethernet.  Does that make a difference?

     

    BTW ... thank you for your response.

  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    bkj1020

    Ah ... so i reread your post.  I shouldn't have ethernet to my receiver at all.  So if I remove the ethernet that is currently connected to the receiver will I need to press the red reset button on the back to force it to get an IP from the coax?

  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    peds48
    Quote:    Originally Posted by bkj1020 

     I have the small CCK box that connects to the router via ethernet.  Does that make a difference?

     

     


    you have the preferred connection method.  it does not make a difference. that single connection provides internet access for any internet capable receiver.

     

    are you having any problems?

  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    bkj1020

    Not really having problems.  Just wondering why I have an ethernet both to the CCK and the back of the receiver.  Also makes me think that I may not be getting all of my services as I could be limiting myself by having the ethernet on the back of the receiver being the primary connection?

  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    randodeconman

    I have talked to technical support and they referred me to you. I have a h24-500 dvr with a secondary receiver in the basement. When the installer was here, I did not have the password to get him into my locked router. After watching the video, i disconnected the ethernet cable and attempted to get online. I used the code to unlock the router and I got thru. I thought I was on my way, but it still would not connect the internet with the receiver. Every attempt by the tech guy and myself could not get us any further. Do I need to do a hard reset of the receiver and will I lose all of the saved programming? A side note: since I removed the ethernet cable, my basement box does not see any of the recorded shows.

    I have a linksys router.

  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    peds48
    Quote:    Originally Posted by randodeconman 

    I have talked to technical support and they referred me to you. I have a h24-500 dvr with a secondary receiver in the basement. When the installer was here, I did not have the password to get him into my locked router. After watching the video, i disconnected the ethernet cable and attempted to get online. I used the code to unlock the router and I got thru. I thought I was on my way, but it still would not connect the internet with the receiver. Every attempt by the tech guy and myself could not get us any further. Do I need to do a hard reset of the receiver and will I lose all of the saved programming? A side note: since I removed the ethernet cable, my basement box does not see any of the recorded shows.

    I have a linksys router

     

     

    Best to start your own new thread using the "Create New Post" button on the main forum page. Your problem may very well be different from the original poster's. With a new thread you can provide more information about your equipment, location, and troubleshooting you've tried so far. And this forum software makes it difficult to track or respond to folks that add onto someone else's thread. 

  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    peds48
    Quote:    Originally Posted by bkj1020 

    Not really having problems.  Just wondering why I have an ethernet both to the CCK and the back of the receiver. 


    you system is NOT installed correctly.  in a properly installed system, there are NO ethernet cables to any of the receivers, with the exception of a short blue jumper that connect to e receiver DECA on non 24 series receivers

  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    dcd

    Here is a schematic of a properly installed system using a DECA BB Adapter to connect to the router.  The single use of any Ethernet connection is a short jumper between the adapter and the router.  None of the receivers or DVR's ever use the Ethernet port on the back of the box.  Those ports are used in cases where Whole Home is not present.

  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    habells

    I have an older DECA (before wireless) in my basement where the splitter like SWM box is mounted.     I connected it with a Wireless bridge because my router isn't anywhere near any DirecTv coax.     But the bridge isn't very successful at staying connected from way down in the basement.     

     

    This thread suggests that the DECA can be connected inline to any receiver - assuming I understand that right.

    So I'm wondering if any of these would work and which is preferred?

     

    1.  Set up a network connection in the basement using a Powerline Adapter (assuming i can get a Powerline connection there).    Maybe replace with DecaBB adapter replacing older one.

    2.  Get the wireless Cinema kit and install inline on my HD Receiver in the room next to the router (so it won't be on the splitter, it would be connected to a H21 receiver and much closer to the wireless signal).

     

    Or other ideas welcome.

     

    I assume that the internet traffic is light - more browser like, not used for media data transfer?

     

    Thanks.

  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    peds48
    Quote:    Originally Posted by habells 

    I have an older DECA (before wireless) in my basement where the splitter like SWM box is mounted.     I connected it with a Wireless bridge because my router isn't anywhere near any DirecTv coax.     But the bridge isn't very successful at staying connected from way down in the basement.     

     

    This thread suggests that the DECA can be connected inline to any receiver - assuming I understand that right.

    So I'm wondering if any of these would work and which is preferred?

     

    1.  Set up a network connection in the basement using a Powerline Adapter (assuming i can get a Powerline connection there).    Maybe replace with DecaBB adapter replacing older one.

    2.  Get the wireless Cinema kit and install inline on my HD Receiver in the room next to the router (so it won't be on the splitter, it would be connected to a H21 receiver and much closer to the wireless signal).

     

    Or other ideas welcome.

     

    I assume that the internet traffic is light - more browser like, not used for media data transfer?

     

    Thanks.


    Best to start your own new thread using the "Create New Post" button on the main forum page. Your problem may very well be different from the original poster's. With a new thread you can provide more information about your equipment, location, and troubleshooting you've tried so far. And this forum software makes it difficult to track or respond to folks that add onto someone else's thread. 

  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    dcd
    Quote:    Originally Posted by habells 

     

    1.  Set up a network connection in the basement using a Powerline Adapter (assuming i can get a Powerline connection there).    Maybe replace with DecaBB adapter replacing older one.

    2.  Get the wireless Cinema kit and install inline on my HD Receiver in the room next to the router (so it won't be on the splitter, it would be connected to a H21 receiver and much closer to the wireless signal).

     

    I assume that the internet traffic is light - more browser like, not used for media data transfer?

     

    1.  I would not use a powerline adapter under any circumstances.

    2.  This may well give you much better connection.

    3.  If downloading On Demand programming the system will use about 8 Mbps of bandwidth, which is fairly heavy.

  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    lostontheline
    1) The HR24 disables the Ethernet connection if Whole Home is enabled so having it connected is doing nothing, removing it will change nothing, if you have access to any of the Internet features you have access to all, no limiting except in Parental settings.
    2) Pressing the red reset button will not reset setting or erase recordings, it simply is like unplugging the receiver & plugging it back in, no more.
    3) The wired CCK needs to be connected directly to the router, the longer the connection is the more the signal degrades. You may still get connection, but may have issues with speed or errors in downloads. That's why it comes with a 1ft cable.
    The best choice is to run a coaxial line up to the router, make sure it has compression ends as the crimp ones are not rated for the signal range used by DirecTV. Replace it on the splitter with the new wire.
    The next best thing would be to use the wireless. But you can run into the same problems as with a long wire, more so the more devices using the WiFi & the more networks are using the same WiFi channel (1, 6, 11 - anything 2-5 interferes with 1&6, anything 7-10 interferes with 6&11) I would suggest using a WiFi tool like 'inSSIDer' to determine what frequencies are being used & choose whichever (of 1, 6 & 11) has the least networks sharing bandwidth.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            
  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    peds48
    Quote:    Originally Posted by lostontheline 

    3) The wired CCK needs to be connected directly to the router, the longer the connection is the more the signal degrades. You may still get connection, but may have issues with speed or errors in downloads. That's why it comes with a 1ft cable.


    just so you know, cat 5 (the most common type of networking cable) according to the ANSI/TIA/EIA standard has a maximum length of 100 meters or 328feet before any active devices must be used.  

     

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable

     

    why DirecTV came with the poor idea of providing a 1 foot jumper, is beyond me!


  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    lostontheline
    DirecTV CCK Cat5

    Having run over 20,000ft of Cat5/5e/6 cables, worked with Cisco systems, worked as a Network Efficiency Coordinator for professional networking systems, having ~$9,000 of network testing hardware & software & having done my own testing to verify what I was told by 4 separate people from DirecTV (I actually didn't buy it at first either) I think my statement was valid. You're information is true, you can run a single line of Cat5 225ft before it requires an active device to amplify the signal. I've actually seen a 314ft run with an error free connection, purely for a "I proved the teacher wrong" credit, but that doesn't mean the connection was as good quality as a shorter run would have been. It also depends on the device. A standard NIC provides a 30db signal with an average return loss of 20db, the longer the cable is as well as crossing over power lines, temperature, the amount of twists lost on the ends, & my personal bane: running in-line with power lines, the more loss of signal strength & more importantly, the more likely it is to loose signal quality. Then you have solid cabling, used in your walls, & stranded cabling, used for patch cables. Solid is better for signal quality & has less loss over long runs, where stranded is used for connecting devices together, where cabling is going to be touched & moved (What would be used here). But the problem we have here is, I'm assuming, that the NIC in the CCK has a low powered signal, making it suffer sooner, & more greatly, from cable issues. So, in essence, it should be able to receive signals just fine (being transmitted at 30db) but would have issues with lost packets because the outgoing signal is transmitted at 5, or even 0db. You probably know a little about DB loss from your coax lines, most 2-way splitters loose 3-4db on each leg, Cable Modem splitters loose 2db on 1 leg & 5db on the other, your 8-way SWM splitter looses 10db on each leg, 100ft of RG6 Coax looses 5db, etc. but from my personal tests, with a 20ft solid line run I had 0.06% packet loss, with the 1ft stranded cable included out of 3 tests only 1 showed packet loss at a rate of 0.0092%, the others returned no packet loss. & just to show you that it's not a problem with the cable I connected 3 separate machines to the same cable, did 3 tests with each. 2 machines, running active traffic management software, returned no packet loss whatsoever. The other, with out-of-the-box network settings, returned 1 test with no loss, 1 with 0.002% loss & 1 with 0.005% loss. That's where my statement came from.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    peds48
    Quote:    Originally Posted by lostontheline 

    That's where my statement came from.


    all your tests are fine, but to say that this is the reason why the CCK comes with a 1 ft cable just does not sound right.  DirecTV could easily include an "standard"  7' patch cable with no problem. I think this has to do with saving mula $$$$$$.  for each 7 patch cable they can make 7 one footers......

  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    lostontheline
    Well I, personally, don't use a 10' cable when I only need 8'. Maybe that's just an overzealousness caused by my work with Network Efficiency, but I build all my own cables myself so it's not difficult for me to do. But you can get a 6' Cat5e/6 cable for a couple bucks at any store, grocery store, drug store, Convenience store, heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the mattress store had them. Where a 1' cable you'd have to go find at an actual electronics store, I doubt WorstBuy has them. So, since it's better, if even marginally so, to use the 1' cable & most people are going to have it next to or on top of their router, it's better to include the hard to find item rather than the 1 that most people have a dozen extras of in a shoebox or closet.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    peds48
    Quote:    Originally Posted by lostontheline 
    Well I, personally, don't use a 10' cable when I only need 8'. 


    the point is that when you install these DECA BBs by the dozens everyday (like I do), and the power cord does not reach the outlet because DirecTV included 1 ft of ethernet cable is maddening........Yell.  fortunately I also install Wildblue and those folks are very smart, they include a 7 footer, which most of the time I don't use because the customer already has one from the previous ISP Laughing

     

    and the last point is there is no discernible difference whether you use a 1 or 20 feet or cable.

  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    lostontheline
    Just because most people don't notice the difference & it's not very extreme, doesn't mean that it doesn't matter. Just like a lot of installers will just split a line for 2 rooms next to eachother instead of running a clean line the whole way to each room. It doesn't matter, the picture looks clean in both rooms, so it's good enough. But it's not the same thing.
    Imagine if someone was wiring your house power lines, needed 20 Amps on this line but the wiring was only rated for 15 Amps, so they just replaced the breaker with a 20 Amp breaker. It works fine, doesn't have any problems, so it's all good right? If 1,000 people did this 995 of them would never have a problem. But 5 would & those 5 would wish that the installer did things right instead of easy. It's the same thing.
    As far as the power cord not reaching, it's as long as the power cord to most routers, so if you put the CCK on top of the router it should reach the same outlet as the router. So that's not a valid excuse. For the ones that there is really no other choice, a longer cable is acceptable, but for those to who it's a slight inconvienience, it's just laziness.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    jimmie57

    As far as the power cord not reaching, it's as long as the power cord to most routers, so if you put the CCK on top of the router it should reach the same outlet as the router. So that's not a valid excuse. For the ones that there is really no other choice, a longer cable is acceptable, but for those to who it's a slight inconvienience, it's just laziness.

     

    I thought the discussion was about the length of the ethernet cable, not the power cord.

    Am I just not awake yet ?


  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    lostontheline
    Yes, it is about the length of the Ethernet cord, but the reason for it needing to be longer was stated as "when you install them every day & the power cord doesn't reach because of the 1' Ethernet cable"
    I was just saying that that argument doesn't hold water                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    jimmie57

    Come on man, a one foot long ethernet cable is just ridiculous.

    I am not an installer but I have set up many computers and I would say that not one of them would work with a one foot long ethernet cable.

  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    dcd
    Quote:    Originally Posted by lostontheline 
    1) The HR24 disables the Ethernet connectionif Whole Home is enabled so having it connected is doing nothing, removing it will change nothing,

    All this discussion about db losss theory etc, you guys missed the one absolute no no.  You have the wrong "order" in the quoted post.  The HR24 defaults to DECA if no Ethernet cable is connected.  If a cable is connected, the default changes to Ethernet, and DECA is disabled.  Thus a Ethernet cable MUST NOT be connected to a Whole Home HR24.  Connecting one will disable Whole Home as soon as a reset occurs, removing one will re enable Whole Home as soon as a reset occurs.

  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    lostontheline
    Well, from my recent personal experience that's the case. I recently had an HD receiver installed & an HR24. I was told that the installer would set it up for the on demand & I'd be able to watch YouTube & all that jazz. When he left there was no Internet, I went into the menu to set it up. I tried the ethernet connection, nothing, tried 6 different cables, even built a new one, tried 3 routers & 2 switches, not even an IP registration. Eventually I called tech support & was told that the HR24, unlike the previous HD DVRs, disabled the Ethernet because if it didn't the MRV would be disabled.
    Yes, no computer would work with a 1' cable unless the computer was in front of the outlet, but the cord isn't meant for that, it's meant for 1 thing; to connect a device set on top of a router to the router, a setup where 1 foot is more than enough. Mine is next to my router, mounted on a wall, it's plenty long enough. If you NEED a longer cable, use it, but for MOST setups that should be enough.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    peds48
    Quote:    Originally Posted by lostontheline 
    Yes, it is about the length of the Ethernet cord, but the reason for it needing to be longer was stated as "when you install them every day & the power cord doesn't reach because of the 1' Ethernet cable"
    I was just saying that that argument doesn't hold water


    I can tell you are not an installer.  usually where ever there is a modem there is a computer, a router, powered speakers, a printer a ton of other stuff.  then I go to connect the DECA and there is no plugs, all taken, then I find a plug a few feet away, but wait, I only have one foot of ethernet cable.  I wish the thing was longer (the cable)

  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    lostontheline
    Have you ever tried asking if they had another strip? No, I have never been a DirecTV installer, but I have done HomeRuns of Cat5, Coax, Phone & various AV lines including shared video lines, requiring an amplified splitter which uses a coax powerline similar to the SWM dish's power. Those must be installed behind the serving video source, usually large Stereo Racks. There's been a number of times there wasn't an outlet, I've never once had someone say they didn't have one. Occasionally they pretend to think it should be included, but when I say it'll cost $12 extra they always find one.
    I personally would be annoyed a "*PROfessional*" installer came to my house & ran a power cord 9ft accords my wall & then had an Ethernet cable stretched another 5ft to my Router. Part of what "Professional" means is that things look Professional afterwards.
    My intent was to ensure that any future searchers had the information, they now have 2 very different views on the subject, 1 from an installer, 1 from a Network tech. I feel like we're now just arguing, each presenting information that the other thinks is unimportant. I will always say that the quality of the installation is more important, you'll always say the ease for the installer is. Anyone looking for this information will have it from both sides, if they have a question about your side they can ask you, if they have a question about mine, ask me. But I think the argument is now detracting from the post.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
  • Re: Internet - HR24-200 - Directv Cinema connection
    peds48

    I agree to disagree!  and remember is a free professional STANDARD installation.  what you do is custom, hence the difference!