45 Replies Latest reply: May 9, 2013 10:35 AM by dustoffmedic RSS

Security Key Not Accepted

gg954

I have the DTV HD Whole Home DVR, and recently got the wireless cinema kit. Installed it using the coaxial cables and it set up went great until it found my home wireless router and when entering my password it keeps saying password is not valid. I've reset my home modem (both turned it off and on and also entirely reset it) and have done the menu default reset on my DTV box as well as reset the cinema adapter...in all types of orders and nothing worked. I've also changed security settings on my home network from WPA/WPA2 to WEP and even to no security and still the cinema adaptor could not connect. I called Verizon (DSL) as I noticed I'm using PPPoE as the connection type and one forum said to use DHCP. They said the PPPoE is only to their office, but the router has a built in DHCP that is used when computers are connecting to it. All of my other computeres connect just fine, and my password is numerical only. I know the trick with the remote of having letters and then numbers (ABCabc123) and I have ensured that the numbers appear on screen when entering the password. I'm at a loss of what else to do.

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    gg954

    Also, I'm using a DLINK 2750B DSL router. Anyone know if this is one of those not compatible with the CCK?

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    dcd

    Make sure the SSID (network name) and the password both have only letters and numbers, no punctuation

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    gg954

    Password is all numbers and SSID is just letters. It finds the SSID, but wont accept password.

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    drbrining

    All I can say check to see if it is a 5Ghz router, not mentioned in system requirements but is noted in FCC statement in back of manual. 2.4GHz not compatible, once I bought and installed new router - no problems.

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    litzdog911
    Quote:    Originally Posted by drbrining 

    All I can say check to see if it is a 5Ghz router, not mentioned in system requirements but is noted in FCC statement in back of manual. 2.4GHz not compatible, once I bought and installed new router - no problems.


    Not true. The CCK works with both 2.4GHz and 5GHz equipment. 

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    fyaeger

    Has anyone found a solution for this problem?

     

    I also have WHDVR, the CCK and the DLINK 2750B DSL router.  It finds my SSID, but when I enter the security key, it says the key is not valid.  I use the same key successfully to connect my ipad to that router.  The key is only uppercase letters and numbers.  

     

    I've read in some other threads here and elsewhere that the problem may have something to do with ASCII vs HEX keys.

    I believe the WPA2 router key is in ASCII.  Is the CCK expecting a hex key instead of an ASCII key?  For example, if my DLINK router key is JA1 (obviously a simplification), am I supposed to be able to use JA1 for the CCK key (this doesn't work for me) or am I supposed to use the hex version of that -  4a4131 or 4A4131 (I haven't tried either of those).  Or is there some other conversion I need to do?

     

    Any help on this would really be appreciated.

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    jedom

    I am having the same problem. I am using an Apple Airport Express router. Same problem. won't accept security key. removed security and just seems to time out. Directv tech support said reboot receiver and this didn't work. I am using just coax hookup as I don't have the Deca attached to receiver. I recived the CCK on July 3rd 2012. Other person having same problem above is a recent post. Is there a problem with newly shipped CCKs?

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    jedom

    FYI, I found the following on an Apple Support forum. I haven't tested this, but I also have an apostrophe in my wireless network name so I am hoping that this is my issue.

     

    QUOTE:

    "The person that chose to answer mentioned that they had no troubles setting up their connection kit with an Airport Extreme.  They did it for testing purposes and the only problems that they noted is that the Directv Cinema Connection Kit didn't like wireless networks with special characters in the name.

     

    I immediately opened up airport utility and changed the name of my network.  My network name did contain an apostrophy, so I took it out!  Guess what?  It worked!

     

    I hope no one else has this problem, but in case you do, hopefully my experience will help you."

     

    END QUOTE

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    fyaeger
    Jedom,

    Thanks for the suggestions, but as I said in my first post, my key is only uppercase characters and numbers, no special characters.

    Also, I already tried the reset methods suggested in the thread you found (I found it a while ago) and that didn't work for me.  I detailed what happened with the reset method in this thread

    http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displayrootposts?msgBoardID=10307043

    Hoping to get something that would work for me.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    peds48
    Quote:    Originally Posted by jedom 

     

    FYI, I found the following on an Apple Support forum. I haven't tested this, but I also have an apostrophe in my wireless network name so I am hoping that this is my issue.

     

     


    since you have an Airport Express (not Extreme), you might also want to try this

     

    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4262

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    dcd
    Quote:    Originally Posted by jedom 

     

    I also have an apostrophe in my wireless network name so I am hoping that this is my issue.

     

     

    The Directv system will not tolerate any punctuation in either the SSID (network name) or the password (security key).  Remove the apostrophe and you may be successful.

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    dtv_h25_500

    Mine has punctuation, but using the dash key under the 7 on the remote, I was able to find the correct punctuation; doesn't it defeat the purpose of using complex phrases & passcodes to simplify the permissible character set by excluding punctuation?

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    dcd

    Not sure why you folks want to debate the punctuation issue.  We speak from experience.  Directv devices do not like punctuation of any kind in the SSID or the password.  I've repeated this three times in this thread and that should suffice.

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    fyaeger
    I certainly have not been debating the punctuation issue.  My key only has uppercase letters and numbers.  I even tried a different shorter key this morning with just Uppercase and numbers and still no luck.  I'd really appreciate some other suggestions for what I could try.

    I'm going to try connecting the cck to my router via Ethernet cable to configure it. My problem is I don't know what fields need to be filled in that way.  What should I look for/try?
    Ip address? DNs gateway? Subnet?  I don't really know anything about those.  I can get into my dlink router config screens as admin and change things (ssid/key), but I don't know how to relate what I see there to the config screens (?) for the cck. Any help with relating the fields from one to the other would really be appreciated.



  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    dcd
    Quote:    Originally Posted by fyaeger 
    I certainly have not been debating the punctuation issue.

    My comment was not addressed to anyone in particular.  With so many folks piggy backing onto this thread it's impossible to communicate to you in particualr that a reset of the CCK would be in order.  If you'd like to start a fresh thread and outline your issue again, I can post reset instructions if you need them.

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    fyaeger

    Yes, you're right about the piggybacking.


    I've already tried restarting the CCK numerous times, but it didn't help.


    I actually did start my own thread at:

    http://forums.directv.com/message/11085189#11085189

     

    which describes what I've tried.


    Please post there if you can help.

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    gabrielspcs

    I have both the Wireless Home Cinema connection device and the wired one.  There are pros and cons to each.  The wired one seems to have issues with IP address conflicts.  The wireless one is a pain in the neck to setup.  I found a simple solution that got the dad gummed thing working finally.  

     

    My setup:

    1. Directv SWM Power Inserter

    1 DirecTV HR24 HD-DVR (Master)

    2. DirecTV HR25 boxes (slaves)

    1. DirecTV Wireless CCK-W Adapter

    1. Centurylink Actiontec c1000a fully TCP/IP6 compliant modem/router/wifi

     

    The fix for me was as follows:

     

    1. Unplug the SWM power inserter

    2. Hit the red reset button on EVERY direcTV reciever and unplug them BEFORE they reboot

    3. Unplug and then plug your modem back in to reset the DHCP stacks

    3. Plug the SWM power inserter back in

    4. Boot your DirecTV recievers back up and the CCK-w adapter all within the same 2 minutes of each other.

    5. DO NOT RUN THE SETUP if you have the CCK-W!!!  Go press the WPS button on your modem/router and within less than 2 minutes there is a WPS button on the CCK adapter.  Hold the WPS button on the CCK till you see the activity lights change and it will auto connect using the Wirelss Push Button Service.

    6. Now on your recievers do this: SETUP>Network>Connect Now

     

    worked for me, its a long anoying process but it was the only way to stop those dumb Ip address confilicts that happen if you dont restart ALL of your recievers.

     

    I also had to ask Centurylink for a new modem as I found out that Actiontec Q1000 advanced network modems actually have a issue with this.  If you have a old modem, you will have issues.   I had the same issue before when I had Comcast.  Their SMC advanced gateway modems had the EXACT same issue which used to really tick me off.  Hope this helps... 

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    fyaeger
    "4. Boot your DirecTV recievers back up and the CCK-w adapter all within the same 2    minutes of each other."

    Can you please give more specific details on this step.  Do you reboot each receiver (I have 2 hr24s and 1 hr20) by just plugging it in again or some other way (how exactly)?  Do you unplug and replug the cck to reboot it or do something else?  Do you need to reset the  cck at any point (if so, when)?

    Thanks.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    dcd

    The "boot" and "reboot" steps in the network setup procedure are all accomplished by disconnecting AC power then re connecting.

     

    The idea here is to have a fresh clean Internet connection available to the Directv receivers and the cinema connection kit when they are powered on.  The problem that many have is the adapter was added AFTER the system was up and running thus IP address conflicts occur.

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    fyaeger

    Well, thanks for the suggestion, but it didn't work for me. Even though I used the WPS, it didn't connect automatically. I tried entering the ssid and password manually, but as always it refused to accept the password (the same one that works for my ipad). At this point, I've tried every suggestion I could find on this board and others, so I'm officially giving up.

     

     

    Obviously, I'm not the only one with this kind of problem  judging by the many posts about this kind of problem.

     

     

    If I'm doing something wrong, I can't figure out what it is. If DIRECTV is doing something wrong, they don't seem to know how to fix it or even believe that it's their problem despite the number of people reporting it. Oh, well, no cinema connection for me (and apparently many others). :-)

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    bayridge

    I don't believe you're doing anything wrong. There are tons of people who can't connect. Directv Cinema needs a lot of work. As far as I'm concerned, it is a piece of garbage.

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    litzdog911
    Quote:    Originally Posted by bayridge

    I don't believe you're doing anything wrong. There are tons of people who can't connect. Directv Cinema needs a lot of work. As far as I'm concerned, it is a piece of garbage.


    As you've made clear in your own thread. No need to toss your opinion into this person's thread. The fact is that the vast majority of folks have zero issues with this. And we're usually able to help those folks that come here with issues. Perhaps with some more details in your own thread we can get you up and running.  You seem to just want to complain, though.

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    pitroad

    I experienced this same issue after replacing my router. I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out why I kept getting that message. I did what many here said they did; changed from WPA2 to WPA to WEP; changed password multiple times; rebooted everything involved many many times. I had worked with several Directv customer support people on the phone over two days and was awaiting a call from 2nd level support when I stumbled across this post. Someone mentioned the fact that Directv CCK doesn't like certain characters and I had a '&' sign in my router SSID name. I changed the name and removed the special character and connected up the 1st attempt.

    Bottom Line :  use only letters and numbers in your SSID name (and probably your password as well)

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    fyaeger
    Yes, the restrictions on passwords has been mentioned many times.  I wish that was my problem.  But it's not.  I have only letters and numbers in my ssid and password.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    udontknowjack888
    I have the same exact proble, with Direct TV and I also have the Dlink Modem. I called customer service for both DTV and Verizon until 2am in the morning and no resolution. Dtv has a compatability issue and they dont have enough complaints to justify looking into it. So some people want to say that some of us are disgruntled and want to voice an opinion then they can go justify heir jobs to someone else. I am a customer and dont care to hear a DTV employee tell me hat I am unhappy because i pay them my hard earned money and if they are not careful I will take my business elsewhere.
    Alo
    So, this is a DTV issue not a Verizon issue. If anyone has a resolution to this please let me know.  BTW, i changed my wireless router back to my older Westell 7500 and no more problems. I troubleshooted backwards and reinstalled my Dlink router and Again I was able to connect at all my wireless stuff that I had connected before: ie: my iphones, ipad, laptop etc... And no problems. The only one that did not connect was directv. Also, i went further and upgraded my Cisco wireless adaptor to the new Directv wireless cinema kit which customer service told me was super top of the line and that just wasted another 83 dollars so it is not a modem issue, it is a dtv issue and they need a firmware update to fix.  I really cant call them anymore. This is ridiculous.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        
  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    udontknowjack888
    August 5, 2012 2:34 PM  |  #27 Quick Reply    Edit    Forward   
    I have the same exact proble, with Direct TV and I also have the Dlink Modem. I called customer service for both DTV and Verizon until 2am in the morning and no resolution. Dtv has a compatability issue and they dont have enough complaints to justify looking into it. So some people want to say that some of us are disgruntled and want to voice an opinion then they can go justify heir jobs to someone else. I am a customer and dont care to hear a DTV employee tell me hat I am unhappy because i pay them my hard earned money and if they are not careful I will take my business elsewhere.
    Alo
    So, this is a DTV issue not a Verizon issue. If anyone has a resolution to this please let me know. BTW, i changed my wireless router back to my older Westell 7500 and no more problems. I troubleshooted backwards and reinstalled my Dlink router and Again I was able to connect at all my wireless stuff that I had connected before: ie: my iphones, ipad, laptop etc... And no problems. The only one that did not connect was directv. Also, i went further and upgraded my Cisco wireless adaptor to the new Directv wireless cinema kit which customer service told me was super top of the line and that just wasted another 83 dollars so it is not a modem issue, it is a dtv issue and they need a firmware update to fix. I really cant call them anymore. This is ridiculous.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       
  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    jimmie57

    If the Westell 7500 and many many other brands models works without any problems and the Dlink model number 2750 does not work doesn't  that make it a Dlink problem ?

     

    We are not DirecTV employees, just users the same as you are and try to help people with their problems.

     

    Why are you not using the Westell ?

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    jimmie57

    I don't have one of the problematic routers but I looked up the manual for it.

    I do not know if other routers do this or not but it says that if it is reset that it defaults the ssid and the security key back to admin.

    Can this be the problem ? If you type in admin for the ssid and then admin for the security key after a reset will it connect ?

     

    Pasted from the manual.

    SET -UP AND CONFIGURATION PROBLEMS


    1. HOW DO I CONFIGURE MY DSL-2750B ROUTER WITHOUT THE CD, OR CHECK MY
    WIRELESS NETWORK NAME (SSID) AND WIRELESS ENCRYPTION KEY?

    - Connect your PC to the router using an Ethernet cable.
    - Open a web browser and enter the address http://192.168.1.1
    -The default username is ‘admin’. The default password is 'admin'.
    - If you have changed the password and can not remember it, you will need to reset the router to
    set the password back to 'admin'.

     

    2. HOW DO I RESET MY DSL-2750B ROUTER TO FACTORY DEFAULT SETTINGS?
    - Ensure the router is powered on.
    - Press and hold the reset button on the rear of the device for 10 seconds.
    Note: Resetting the router to factory default will erase the current configuration settings. To reconfigure
    your settings, log into the router as outlined in question 1, then run the Setup Wizard.

     

    link to manual:

    http://files.dlink.com.au/Products/DSL-2750B/QuickInstallGuide/DSL-2750B_B1_QIG_v1.00(AU).pdf

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    udontknowjack888
    I never said. That you were directv employees. I just don't like durectv employees that justify their jobs. And resetting the slink is not the answer. And if u hada slink u would know the admin user I'd and password are not the same. And I am using the westell I never said I wasn't. I had to go back to it and when they upgrade you they usually want the other equipment back. Thanks for your input but this does not solve the issue                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    
  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    udontknowjack888
    If you think Directv is bad try dish. They are all the same nonsense. Too bad cable is such a monopoly and Fios is so expensive and not in all areas yet.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    
  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    gg954

    After trying everything I could, and DirecTV customer support providing absolutely no help at all, I bridged my DSL router to an old router I had from my cable modem days, and the DTV Cinema seems to find that one just fine. I agree with those saying DTV needs to rectiify this problem since it's clearly on their end. I shouldn't have to run two routers in order to get "On Demand" shows.

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    peds48
    Quote:    Originally Posted by gg954 

    After trying everything I could, and DirecTV customer support providing absolutely no help at all, I bridged my DSL router to an old router I had from my cable modem days, and the DTV Cinema seems to find that one just fine. I agree with those saying DTV needs to rectiify this problem since it's clearly on their end. I shouldn't have to run two routers in order to get "On Demand" shows.


    you shouldn't.  as a matter of fact is not a good idea!.  

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    ouex2232
    Folks, make sure router's security setting is specifically in WEP, WPA-Personal, or WPA2-Personal....my password wasn't working until I changed that setting on my router....default on router was WPA/WPA2 Mixed Mode or something and it confused the DCCK....
  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    jimwilkins
    Quote:    Originally Posted by ouex2232 
    Folks, make sure router's security setting is specifically in WEP, WPA-Personal, or WPA2-Personal....my password wasn't working until I changed that setting on my router....default on router was WPA/WPA2 Mixed Mode or something and it confused the DCCK....


    Works for me.  Finally got connected.  However, all of a sudden, my iPad will not connect nor my wireless printer.  Has anyone seen this?

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    peds48
    Quote:    Originally Posted by jimwilkins 
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ouex2232 
    Folks, make sure router's security setting is specifically in WEP, WPA-Personal, or WPA2-Personal....my password wasn't working until I changed that setting on my router....default on router was WPA/WPA2 Mixed Mode or something and it confused the DCCK....


    Works for me.  Finally got connected.  However, all of a sudden, my iPad will not connect nor my wireless printer.  Has anyone seen this?


    Jim, Best to start your own new thread using the "Create New Post" button on the main forum page. Your problem may very well be different from the original poster's. With a new thread you can provide more information about your equipment (model numbers), location, and troubleshooting you've tried so far. And this forum software makes it difficult to track or respond to folks that add onto someone else's thread. Thank you. 

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    jimwilkins

    Will do.  Thanks.

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    jrhayward

    For me the fix was to enter a hex value for the password.  When I realized that the remote only accepted values in the hexadecimal range (A-F and 0-9) I translated my password to its hexadecimal equivalent and it worked.

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    woj58

    I have the same problem with a twist.  I've been connected wirelessly for about 8 months without issues (I think) until this week.  I noticed it wasn't connected so I tried to set it back up again and now it won't accept my network password - just like everybody else is complaining about.  Since I've been connected before with the same ssid and password it makes one wonder....Anyway, I happened to notice that my second receiver got a firmware update a couple of days ago.  I imagine this probably precipitated the whole debacle.  I've tried numerous reboot sequences without much luck although I did manage to move the needle from "not finding my network at all" to "I don't like your password" which is an improvement, I guess.  I do have an MSEE and work in the wireless industry so I have some applicable technical background.  After much thought, analysis, and soul-searching my diagnosis is that the software s*cks.  

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    peds48
    Quote:    Originally Posted by woj58 

    I have the same problem with a twist.  I've been connected wirelessly for about 8 months without issues (I think) until this week.  I noticed it wasn't connected so I tried to set it back up again and now it won't accept my network password - just like everybody else is complaining about.  Since I've been connected before with the same ssid and password it makes one wonder....Anyway, I happened to notice that my second receiver got a firmware update a couple of days ago.  I imagine this probably precipitated the whole debacle.  I've tried numerous reboot sequences without much luck although I did manage to move the needle from "not finding my network at all" to "I don't like your password" which is an improvement, I guess.  I do have an MSEE and work in the wireless industry so I have some applicable technical background.  After much thought, analysis, and soul-searching my diagnosis is that the software s*cks.  

    Best to start your own new thread using the "Create New Post" button on the main forum page. Your problem may very well be different from the original poster's. With a new thread you can provide more information about your equipment (model numbers), location, and troubleshooting you've tried so far. And this forum software makes it difficult to track or respond to folks that add onto someone else's thread. Thank you. 

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    gwarner
    have you had any success because I have the same exact router and issues                                                                                                                                                                                       
  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    peds48
    Quote:    Originally Posted by gwarner 
    have you had any success because I have the same exact router and issues


    Best to start your own new thread using the "Create New Post" button on the main forum page. Your problem may very well be different from the original poster's. With a new thread you can provide more information about your equipment (model numbers), location, and troubleshooting you've tried so far. And this forum software makes it difficult to track or respond to folks that add onto someone else's thread. Thank you. 

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    dustoffmedic

    I just got a new D-Link router yesterday from Verizon. I changed the SSID and security code to my old ones so my existing devices would work --- all ok ----- except for the DCCK. No matter what I try, it won't connect anymore. I talked to two techs over the last 5+ hours --- both had no idea how to fix it. I've reset the DCCK, reset all my DVRs, unplugged and rebooted the router ( 4 times ), entered my security code so many times I forget how many, and nothing. My code is rejected, even though it's just lower case letters and numbers, no special characters; the on-screen directions keep asking me to connect an Ethernet cable even though I have WH service; sometimes it finds my network SSID but continually rejects the code. I'm about to just trash the thing and forget about any cinema. It worked flawlessly until I set up the new router. if anybody has any good suggestions ---- I'd appreciate the help. Thanks.

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    peds48
    Quote:    Originally Posted by dustoffmedic 

    I just got a new D-Link router yesterday from Verizon. I changed the SSID and security code to my old ones so my existing devices would work --- all ok ----- except for the DCCK. No matter what I try, it won't connect anymore. I talked to two techs over the last 5+ hours --- both had no idea how to fix it. I've reset the DCCK, reset all my DVRs, unplugged and rebooted the router ( 4 times ), entered my security code so many times I forget how many, and nothing. My code is rejected, even though it's just lower case letters and numbers, no special characters; the on-screen directions keep asking me to connect an Ethernet cable even though I have WH service; sometimes it finds my network SSID but continually rejects the code. I'm about to just trash the thing and forget about any cinema. It worked flawlessly until I set up the new router. if anybody has any good suggestions ---- I'd appreciate the help. Thanks.


    See post #43

  • Re: Security Key Not Accepted
    dustoffmedic

    I know, I know, I should put this elsewhere. I was on the phone last night for over an hour with a very nice and patient tech in KY -- after trying everything except beating the DCCK with a hammer, we both gave up and I scheduled an actual visit from DTV. After all that, I disconnected the DCCK and -- my whole home service was gone, gone, gone. Today I unplugged the SWM, rebooted all 3 receivers and got that back but the DCCK still won't work even though I followed all the above posts about DHCP, MAC filtering, firewall, etc. So ---- I removed it. Probably permanently. DTV said because they're "working" with me to solve the problem they won't entertain a refund of even part of the purchase price. So -- I'm out th3 33 bucks and over 5 hours of frustration. C'est la vie!