73 Replies Latest reply: Aug 21, 2013 10:15 AM by gabbott2 RSS

Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly

etype2

I have been an uninterrupted Direct TV subscriber since 1995.

 

I have a Genie HR 44/500 connected to a Marantz SR 7005 7.2 audio/video receiver and a Sharp LC 70LE735U LCD LED 3D TV with auto 3D detection. Ever since the Genie was connected, it has trouble communicating. Even though my TV is set to auto detect 3D, when I tune any one of the active 3D channels, I get a message that my TV is not compatible to receive 3D. With my previous HR 24/500, never had this problem. In order to watch 3D programing, I have to go into the Sharp TV menu and reset auto 3D detect even though it is set on auto 3D detect. I have to do this every time after my system is shut down for the day and then powered up.

 

I also have a problem with the Genie HR44/500 outputting 5.1 surround sound. Every day when I power up the system, I only receive left and right sound even though my receiver is set to auto detect the soundtrack of the device connected to it. To overcome this, I have to set the receiver to any other sound field, then reset it to auto Dolby digital. Once I do this, the sound is outputted normally for the rest of the day until I shut it off and then power up the next day. My Genie A/V is sent to the Marantz by an HDMI cable installed by Direct TV. Direct TV disconnected my previous HDMI cable which had the latest 1.3a specification. My Genie is set to Dolby Digital.

 

I reported these problems to Direct TV 2nd tier technical support and they want me to send the HDMI cable directly to the TV and use an optical cable to the A/V receiver. I don't think this is right because I will lose quality in the audio and the HDMI cable is designed to pass the best quality A/V signals and in view of the fact that my system functioned fine with my present setup using the old HR 24/500.

 

Any thoughts?

  • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
    lwolfenbarger

    We have the same problems with 3D and terrible audio after upgrading from an HR 24 to the HR 44 Genie about two weeks ago.  We have a Denon AV Receiver and a Mitsubishi 82" 3D dlp TV.  We have spent many hours troubleshooting.  It is not your HDMI, and yes, going to optical connections will be a downgrade.  We are also long term Direct TV customers.  I have been told by customer support today that they are aware of the problem and are working on it.  They are not sure if it will be a software download or a receiver replacement and are not sure how long this will take.


  • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
    itsmeforreal

    Well I thought the Genie would be an Upgrade as well. But it is certainly not when it comes to Audio.

    Why? well you do not have the Optical Audio OutPut anymore.

    The only way to get Audio out are as followed:

    HDMI, Aux or Digital Audio.

    Out of those choices the Digital Audio is the best solution. You will need to connect that output to the Digital Audio Input of you 5.1 System. What if you dont have that input? Well your screwed.

     

    Connecting the HDMI to your TV then connect an optical to your system? Doesnt work. 5.1 Sound from HDMI via pass through to Optical will always downgrade to 2.1. So thats not an option.

     

    Using Aux? well I dont have to talk about that.

     

    So therefore the only way to get 5.1 to your 5.1 system is using the Digital Output.

  • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
    etype2

    For some reason, I can't reply to my previous discssion: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly

     

    Direct TV sent my problem to case management. All my issues are resolved.

     

    1. I was unable to change my remote from IR to RF, it was greyed out. For Genie HR 44 users, make sure Direct TV gives you the new unique remote. It will allow you to change the HR 44 to read RF from the new remote. the old remote would not allow this. The 3D and remote not responding issue is now working. In my case, the instalers of the Genie did not give me the new remote, saying that customers were complaning that the new remote did not do as much as the old remote.

     

    2. New APPS not working as a result of July 17, 2013 software download. As of now, only 4 Apps are available, that is why you don't see more Apps propagating the screen.

     

    3. 5.1 surround not outputting to A/V reciver all the time. They did not agree with earlier tech suggestion to send HDMI cable directly to TV and use an optical cable from Genie to A/V receiver.

     

    ... site timed out on me. Adding: This issue not completely resolved. We could not duplicate the problem when tech was at my home. They sugested that I toggle to another channel and return to a channel with 5.1 sound and see what happens.

  • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
    etype2

    Direct TV came to my home to address the sound issue this past Saturday, August 10, 2013. They did try to swap the HDMI cable. They used an optical cable from the Geni HR 44 output sending it to my optical input on my receiver.

     

    It worked for a while and then the sytem was powered down for an hour. Upon powerup, once again only left and right audio. The receiver was set to Auto Dolby Digital. The only option left per the Case Manager, was to escalate to enginerring and to try another Geni HR 44. Marantz Technical Support insists the problem is not with the Marantz A/V receiver. I have the latest firmware update and we trouble shot the Marantz receiver.

     

    About the Optical Cable. It is my understanding that optical is NOT a lossless cable and that it will not pass HD audio.

    • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
      texasbrit

      You are wrong about optical audio, it passes exactly the same quality DD 5.1 audio as HDMI (or digital audio coax).

      One possibility is that your Marantz is set to pass audio to the TV as well as the surround sound speakers. Since the TV can't handle surround sound, if you have CEC set to "on" the Marantz will downconvert all its outputs to regular PCM stereo. You need to make sure the Marantz is set to NOT output audio to the TV.

      • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
        etype2

        Are you sure?

         

        When I said "lossless" and "HD Audio" I meant Dolby True HD or DTS-HD Master or Multi Channel PCM (more then 2 channels)  It is my understanding that optical can not pass these formats as well as UNCOMPRESSED 5.1 because of the lower bit rate/bandwith of optical cable. HDMI is the only cable that can pass these formats uncompressed. Optical cable can only pass 2.0 PCM meaning stereo. Most receivers can covert this format to 5.1 with electronic trickery known as Dolby digital pro logic 11.

         

        True, I suppose Direct TV is not passing these HD audio signals. I would at least like to have UNCOMPRESSED 5.1 sound. My Marantz SR7005 supports the latest A/V formats including HDMI 1.4a. and it is a discrete 7.2 A/V receiver. I am currently running 5.1 but seriously thinking of upgrading to 7.1 with 2 additional speakers. I have now tried optical and still have the hanshake issue.

         

        I think the second part of your answer may be the key because my system is set up to deliver 5.1 sound from Direct TV, Blue Ray and 5.1 from over the air televisions signals through my 5.1 system. It worked well with the old HR 24-500. To be clear, the remaining issue I have is: after shutdown of system at night, the next morning when I power up the system, I only get left and right stereo, even though the A/V receiver is set to auto Dolby Digital. I have to manually turn the input selector on the receiver to another input, then return it to auto Dolby Digital. Once I do this, It then "reads/accepts" the signal from the HR 44 and I get 5.1 sound for the rest of the day. It dose this with HDMI and now with optical cable. So I imagine the problem is not with either cable?

         

        What is CEC? and I will follow your suggestion.

        • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
          texasbrit

          No, you are under the wrong impression. Optical audio passes Dolby Digital 5.1 with no problems at all. many of us have optical audio (or digital coax) from the DirecTV receiver to an A/V receiver and I can guarantee the signal carries DD 5.1, not just PCM.

          The DirecTv receiver won 't deliver "true HD" or the other formats you mention, they do not exist in TV signals.  If you set the DirecTV box to deliver Dolby, it delivers DD 5.1 (assuming the program has DD 5.1).  The A/V receiver and TV don't have the ability to control the output from the DirecTv box, so I think you can reasonably assume the DirecTV box is outputting Dolby DD 5.1 all the time. It's not a cable problem.  It's the A/V receiver that is deciding to downgrade to PCM 2.0.  My guess is that it's CEC related, as I mentioned. I had the same problem with my Sony A/V receiver, it took me a week of investigation to get the receiver to handle DD 5.1 correctly.

  • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
    peds48

    actually neither optical or Digital coax will pass HD audio.  But with DirecTV receivers this is a moot point as their is no such codecs on DirecTV.

  • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
    peds48

    you need the Jive mobile app in order to post from mobile devices

  • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
    lwolfenbarger

    We are still having the same problems with no D.D. 5.1 on SOME programming that is clearly marked as D.D. 5.1.  We have spent endless hours, and checked multiple times on CEC issues with all components, DENON AVR set up, switching to optical cable, etc. We are not sending audio to the TV.  Our set up is very simple.  One HDMI from Direct TV Box to the Denon, one HDMI monitor out from the Denon to the TV, one HDMI from the Blu Ray player to the Denon.

     

    We have switched out more than one Genie and switched out LNB's, and still no fix. The DENON shows that it is only receiving 2 channel stereo when this problem occurs. This does not happen to us on all stations all the time, just some of the channels, especially Palladia, PBS, and some HD movie channels, where we really used to enjoy the sound. Again, these are programs that are definitely broadcast in D.D. 5.1.  These problems only began when we upgraded from an HR24 with Ka/Ku and changed to the SWM system and the Genie HR44.

     

    Any help would be appreciated.

    • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
      dcd

      If you are getting Dolby some of the time and stereo the rest of the time then your system is working correctly.  There are many HD channels that broadcast stereo part of the time, and frequently channels with commercials will switch from Dolby to stereo at commercial time.  The Directv HD boxes have one, and only one, audio adjustment, and that is Dolby on and off.  I and some of the other TechKnow Guides run Denon receivers and the Directv/Denon combo is very reliable.  Trust what the Denon is telling you.  When the DD indicator goes off, then the program is sending stereo.

    • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
      etype2

      Iwolfenbarger

       

      Do you have a HR 24 else ware in the house to test the channels not outputting in DD 5.1? IF the HR 24 passes DD 5.1 then the HR 44 should pass them. To me, if one box passes the signal and another dose not, then the problem is with that box. Both of us are having the same problem. We both had HR 24's, then switched to the HR 44. Do you have the handshake issue like I do on power up?

       

      My system is hooked up like yours.

       

      Texasbrit: My system is not sending sound to the TV. The built in speakers are left on (I mute the sound from TV speakers) and the optical cable gos from optical out on the Marantz to the optical in on the Sharp TV for over the air broadcasts.

      • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
        texasbrit

        Sorry, that does not make sense.

        QUOTE: "the optical cable gos from optical out on the Marantz to the optical in on the Sharp TV for over the air broadcasts."

        The optical cable should go from the DirecTV box to the optical in on the Marantz.  Then the HDMI cable should run from the DirecTv box to the TV.

         

        If you have the HDMI cable from the DirecTv box to the Marantz, and then HDMI from the Marantz to the TV, you will have this problem unless you specifically tell the Marantz not to do audio passthrough to the TV. Even if the TV speakers are muted, that audio is still going to the TV.

        • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
          texasbrit

          try this as an experiment.

          Connect the DirecTv box to the Marantz via optical audio. Connect the DirecTv box to the TV via HDMI. No connection from the Marantz to the TV.

          Do you have the same issues?

          • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
            etype2

            Quote 

            "try this as an experiment.

            Connect the DirecTv box to the Marantz via optical audio. Connect the DirecTv box to the TV via HDMI. No connection from the Marantz to the TV.

            Do you have the same issues?"

             

            I will try it and let you know.

             

            BTW, This morning about a half hour ago, low and behold, no handshake issue. DD5.1 on power up. Go figure! Now this problem is intermittent. For the past several weeks, no DD5.1 on power up.

        • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
          etype2

          Quote "If you have the HDMI cable from the DirecTv box to the Marantz, and then HDMI from the Marantz to the TV,"

           

          Yes.

           

          I connected an optical cable from my Marantz to my Sharp TV so that I can hear 5.1 though my system (not through the TV speakers) when I switch inputs to TV for over the air broadcasts.

           

          Is this the problem and I will need to remove the optical cable which will then not allow me to here OTA TV input sound through my system, just through the the built in TV speakers?

          • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
            peds48
            doesn't your TV have HDMI-ARC
            • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
              etype2

              I don't know and I will have to find out what HDMI-ARC is.

               

              To texasbrit suggestion, if I do this and issue gos away, I'm thinking that I will loose the HDMI upscaling from my Marantz on SD content.

              • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
                texasbrit

                I am only suggesting this configuration as an experiment, not permanently. With the A/V receiver not connected to anything via HDMI, you bypass any HDMI passthrough/control issues.

                 

                Just FYI. Your A/V receiver should have a setting for "HDMI audio passthrough" (don't know what it is called on your Marantz). When this setting is "off", and the Marantz is connected to the DirecTv box via HDMI, and then the Marantz is connected to the TV via HDMI, the video will go to the TV and the upconversion will be used OK.  The audio will go to the surround sound speakers but NOT to the TV.

                If you set the HDMI audio passthrough to "on", the audio will also go to the TV speakers over the HDMI cable. Your Marantz also has the capability to do passthough when the Marantz power is off, which is useful.

                But your Tv and the Marantz also have CEC capability, which allows one device to control the other over the HDMI link. With my Samsung TV/Sony AV receiver combination, if  I have CEC "on", and I use passthrough, the A/V receiver drops back to PCM stereo even though it is getting Dolby DD 5.1 from the DirecTv box. I run my system with HDMI audio passthrough disabled, and CEC off, and this works fine for me - HDMI from my HR44 to the Sony, HDMI from the Sony to the TV.

                 

                Just FYI again. The forums are full of posts on HDMI audio issues with A/V receivers.  Marantz and Denon are often posted, they are made by the same company.  99% of the time it turns out the problems are caused by incorrect settings.

                 

                The reference to HDMI-ARC is also important, although it does not affect this problem. ARC allows the audio to be returned from the TV to the A/V receiver over the HDMI cable, and avoids the need for a separate optical audio cable from the TV to the A/V receiver.

                • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
                  etype2

                  Very usefull information. Thank you. Will investigate.

                • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
                  etype2

                  The Marantz SR 7005 has "HDMI Control", it was set to on. I turned it off. Everything is working normally right now, but I won't be sure until my system is powered down for a long period. I say this because when the Direct TV techs were out to my home, we would test all configs, power down and up and everything was fine. But after a long system shut down and then power up, I would get only 2 channel stereo.

                   

                  One thing I noticed, after I turned the Marantz HDMI Control to off, the RC 71 remote no longer turns off the Marantz. I have to use the Marantz remote. The RC 71 accepted the code for the Marantz and turned it off with HDMI Control on. A small concession, if this fixes the problem I'm having. I feel good about this fix. Will update tomorrow.

                  • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
                    texasbrit

                    I think the RC71 was probably not powering down the Marantz. The TV was powering down and then the HDMI control signal from the TV was powering down the Marantz.

                     

                    If you can find the setting for HDMI audio passthrough and turn that off, you might find you can use HDMI control. But then you will lose the capability to use the TV speakers instead of the surround sound speakers.

                    The A/V receivers all work slightly differently so you might have to experiment.

                    • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
                      etype2

                      The Marantz SR 7005 MENU (PORTION)

                       

                      HDMI SETUP

                      RGB RANGE

                        AUTO LIP SYNC

                         HDMI AUDIO OUT > AMP or TV

                          MONITOR OUT

                           HDMI CONTROL > ON or OFF

                       

                      I turned the HDMI CONTROL from ON to OFF

                       

                      HDMI AUDIO OUT: AMP: Playback through speakers connected to receiver. This is the setting I'm using.

                                                    TV: Play back through TV connected to the receiver.

                       

                      The owners manual says when the HDMI control function is activated (on) , priority is given to the TV audio setting.

                      • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
                        texasbrit

                        Those settings are a bit strange, why would you want the TV audio settings to drive the Marantz thru CEC if there is no audio to the TV?  It just shows how complex all of this is.....

                        • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
                          etype2

                          I was under the impression that I'm doing just the opposite.

                           

                          I agree, getting very complex. I used to think I was on top of it ... not at all, not any more. I had a professional THX certified A/V company install my system. I'm running 8 foot tall left and right electrostatic speakers. There load is 4 ohm and require a separate dedicated amp. I'm using the aux amp input of the Marantz to connect the 375 watt per channel Adcom amp. which powers the electrostatics. I can run the Marantz in pure direct mode for SACD playback. Eliminates all unnecessary circuits in the audio chain. The installers set everything up when I had the HR 24-500. Worked perfect until the HR 44 was installed in May. I did not change anything until today when you talked about the audio passthrough. I changed the HDMI CONTROL from on to off. I called Marantz support this morning and told them what you said, they said the HDMI Control is for the audio pass through. They told me if I continue to have the problem, I should reset the Marantz and see if that fixes it but only reluctantly. They feel the problem is not with the Marantz.

                           

                          Because of the complexity, I see why 99% of amp problems are with wrong settings. Maybe something got corrupted during the HR 44 install, but we did not change the settings.

                           

                          The Menu I listed above is only a small portion of the Marantz menu. Inputs an Decode are set to Auto etc.  As I said, everything was set up by professional THX certified techs.

                           

                          Right now all is working well after turning the HDMI CONTROL to OFF. (except the RC 71 won't turn off the Marantz) Will update you later and thank you for your help thus far.

  • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
    lwolfenbarger

    The settings on our Denon are pretty much identical to your Marantz.  We have turned off HDMI control, made sure CEC is off on all components and even completely disconnected the HDMI Monitor out from the Denon to the TV and disconnected the HDMI in from the Blu Ray player to the Denon.  This left only an HDMI from the Direct TV box to the Denon.  We still have problems not getting D.D. 5.1 on SOME channels when D.D. 5.1 is being broadcast.  We also ran optical only for audio and the Denon is still only receiving a stereo signal on SOME stations.

     

    We are now starting to look at which satellite and transponder might correspond to the channels that we are still having problems with.  Problem channels HBO 501 HD and Palladia HD are on the same sat and transponder.  However, PBS HD (the other main station that we like that is having major issues with sound) is on the same sat and transponder as our local HD stations, which always come through in D.D. 5.1.

     

    The only other thing that we can think of is when the tech came out to do our upgrade, we had high quality AudioQuest cabling from the dish all the way to the receiver.  He destroyed the AudioQuest and ran standard RG6.  I don't know if a cabling issue could cause frequency problems on certain transmissions?

     

    Any other ideas?

  • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
    etype2

    Good news! I powered up my system this morning and I got DD 5.1 on first try. The HDMI Control is set to OFF.

     

    I will wait a few more days to see if it continues to operate properly. If so, I will mark your answer as correct.

     

    Thank you.

  • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
    gabbott2

    I am a new Genie owner and having many of the same issues as you are experiencing.  I tried to submit my issues into this Forum, but I just can't figure it out.  I'm not even sure if you will see this email, or if I will ever be able to find my way back to see if you responded.

    When I run my HDMI cable from the Genie to my stereo receiver, and then to the TV with another HDMI cable, my 3D channels are greyed out.  I did not experience this with my previous HR24-200 DVR.

    Have you found a resolve yet?

    • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
      etype2

      Which model Geni do you have?

       

      Did Direct TV give you the new RC 71 Remote?

       

      First, go into your TV menu and reset the 3D. It should be on auto depending on your TV. If there is a test 3D screen, activate it.

       

      You need to change your remote from "IR" to "RF"

      • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
        texasbrit

        The remote has nothing to do with this issue....IR is fine.

      • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
        gabbott2

        I have the Genie HR34-700, and I want to try and clarify what my problem is: I'm having problems receiving my 3D channels.  The 3D channels are grayed out, when I bring up the Guide.

         

        I have the Genie connected first to my 3D compatible stereo receiver with an HDMI cable, then to my new 3D capable Sharp TV, with another HDMI cable.  My stereo receiver uses a by-pass feature, to allow the signals from the DVR to pass onto the TV, when it's not turned on.  Having the stereo receiver on, doesn't make any difference.  The 3D channels are grayed out, when I bring up the Guide.

         

        However, after I use the red button on the DVR (reset), when the system comes back on, I now have all of my 3D channels.  They will continue to be there, until I either turn off the DVR or after about 1 1/2 days (of leaving the DVR on).  When I turn my DVR back on, the 3D channels are again grayed out.

         

        If I run the HDMI cable direct from the DVR to the TV, the 3D programs appear.  But this is not the way that I want to run/operate my TV/sound system.

         

        My remote is #RC65RX.  I don’t see how a different remote would resolve my problem?

         

        I've had my Genie for about two weeks, and have not found a way to resolve the problem of having my 3D programs, grayed out in the Guide.  I initially thought that it might be a bad DVR, but after having a Directv tech come out and try to fix the problem, he gave up after about three hours, replace the Genie with another one, and I STILL have the same problem.  After going into this Forum, I see that many folks are experiencing this issue, and other issues, with the new Genie.

         

        I did not have this issue with my previous DVR, an HR24-200, using the very same TV and stereo receiver; and connected the same way.

         

        I've tried using different HDMI cables and even buying a very expensive Monster Cable, without resolving the problem.

         

        I've called the Directv tech people about 5-6 times.  The real frustrating point is that none of them are even aware of this problem.  None of them obviously have a fix, either.  I don't think they even read the Forum?  Is everyone exchanging information about this issue on the Forum, calling in to advise them?

         

        I'm not a tech person, but it appears to me that the gizmo inside the Genie that looks to see if you have a 3D compatible TV, is much more sensitive than the previous DRV's?  And once that you re-set your DVR, this gizmo is either by-passed or becomes less sensitive, and then allows the 3D programs to your TV.  Seems to me that the tech engineers could just send a patch/upgrade out to re-set these Genie's?

         

        Has anyone else with this issue found a resolve yet?

        Maybe more of us need to call Directv and complain?

        • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
          etype2

          I have a Marantz SR 7005 and a 2011 70 inch Sharp 3D TV with a Genie HR 44 DVR.

           

          I had the same problem as you. When I selected to a 3D channel, my TV gave me a message that it is not compatible with 3D and the 3D channels were grayed out. I went into the Sharp TV 3D menu and reset "Auto 3D" and activated the 3D test pattern with the beach balls. The Sharp then activated the 3D and I could then select the 3D channels, but the remote control would not function when in 3D only the volume control. When I shut the system down and later powered up, same problem.

           

          I read in the forums that other people had this problem, but it was corrected when they switched the remote from "IR" to "RF". Direct TV did not give me the new RC 71 remote that comes with the Genie HR 44. Using the old remote, the "IR/RF" menu was grayed out. When Direct TV gave me the new RC 71 remote, I could now see the "IR/RF" menu. I switched to "RF" and everything now works fine.

          • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
            gabbott2

            My Sharp TV is a new 70” 2013 model.  I think the settings are different from your older one, as mine was already in Auto.  I watch the 3D Test, but didn’t see/read anything about “activating” anything?  Yup, same beach balls!  Afterwards, I opened my Guide, and the 3D programs were still greyed out.

             

            I’m not experiencing any issues with my remote control.

             

             

             

            I’m not experiencing a communication/audio issue, it’s the greyed out channels.  *until I use the re-set button on the DVR (which makes the channels available).

             

             

             

            I’ve got a Directv tech, supervisor coming over this afternoon (3rd tech so far).  I’ll see what he has to say.

             

             

             

            Aren’t you in Phoenix?  I’m in Marana.

            • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
              etype2

              I'm in the Phoenix Valley, 21 miles from Phoenix.

               

              When I said activate, I meant I clicked on the 3D test pattern on the Sharp. (the Auto 3D was already highlighted as on) The Sharp then went into 3D mode and I could see the beach balls in 3D. Then, going back to the Direct TV menu, the 3D channels were no longer grayed out and I could watch a 3D program, but the old remote would not function. Like you, each time on power up, I had the same problem again, grayed out channels and grayed out IR/RF on the remote and had to manually reset my Sharp TV by activating the test pattern which seemed to "force" the TV to switch to 3D.

               

              Only after Direct TV gave me the new RC 71 remote that comes with the Genie HR44, was I able to change the remote setting to RF. Then, the menu was no longer grayed out on IR/RF and no longer was the 3D channels grayed out. Now my remote is set to RF and I don't have the issues any more.

               

              I'm curious to know if you can change the IR/RF setting on your Direct TV box.

              • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
                gabbott2

                Your Sharp TV: so just by going into the Menu and watching the short, 3D test with the beach balls, your 3D channels suddenly were no longer greyed out?

                 

                Were you experiencing this problem with an HDMI running directly from your DVR to the TV, or through a stereo receiver first?

                 

                 

                 

                If I run my HDMI cable directly from my DVR to my Sharp TV, I don’t experience the greyed out 3D channels.

                 

                 

                 

                This is getting to be too much of an issue for me.  I may just have to use the red, re-set button on my DVR about every two days, to keep my 3D channels available, or do a re-route and just run a digital (audio) coaxial cable from the DVR to my stereo receiver, and by-pass the stereo with HDMI cables?

                 

                 

                 

                I’d feel much better about this if I were able to talk to at least one Directv tech, who is aware of this situation and assured me that the engineers are “working on it”!

                • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
                  etype2

                  "Your Sharp TV: so just by going into the Menu and watching the short, 3D test with the beach balls, your 3D channels suddenly were no longer greyed out?"

                   

                  YES

                   

                  "Were you experiencing this problem with an HDMI running directly from your DVR to the TV, or through a stereo receiver first?"

                   

                  HDMI FROM DVR TO RECEIVER THEN TO TV. SAME AS WHEN I HAD THE HR 24-500. THE PROBLEM STARTED WHEN THE GENIE HR 24 WAS SWAPPED OUT TO THE HR 44 WITH NO OTHER CHANGES.

                   

                   

                   

                  "If I run my HDMI cable directly from my DVR to my Sharp TV, I don’t experience the greyed out 3D channels."

                   

                  THEN THIS MAY SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM BUT YOU LOOSE FLEXIBILITY.

                   

                   

                   

                  "This is getting to be too much of an issue for me.  I may just have to use the red, re-set button on my DVR about every two days, to keep my 3D channels available, or do a re-route and just run a digital (audio) coaxial cable from the DVR to my stereo receiver, and by-pass the stereo with HDMI cables?"

                   

                  I TRYED AN OPTICAL CABLE FROM MY DVR TO THE RECEIVER FOR A "HANDSHAKE ISSUE" WITH NO SUCCESS. THIS TREAD SUGGESTED THAT I DISABLE THE AUDIO PASS THROUGH WHICH I DID AND NOW MY HANDSHAKE ISSUE IS SOLVED.

                   

                   

                   

                  "I’d feel much better about this if I were able to talk to at least one Directv tech, who is aware of this situation and assured me that the engineers are “working on it”!"

                   

                  I HEAR YOU. BEEN AN UNINTERRUPTED SUBSCRIBER FOR 18 YEARS AND SAW MANY ISSUES WHICH EVENTUALLY GOT WORKED OUT. LIKE TEXASBRIT SAID: 99% OF THE ISSUES ARE WITH CONNECTIONS AND NOT THE DIRECT TV BOX.

                  • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
                    gabbott2

                    My DVR (HR34-700) doesn’t have a Digital Optical, Audio Output.  Only a Digital Coaxial.

                     

                    Where would I find the “audio pass thru”?  In the stereo?

                     

                    Sorry, but my brain is fried…..I’m going to go watch the news now, and turn off this computer.

                     

                    Thanks for all of your help…..

                    • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
                      etype2

                      Everyone has a different VCR/receiver/TV combination, so problems seem to be unique to each one.

                      On my Marantz SR 7005, in the menu, HDMI CONTROL ON or OFF. I set it to OFF.

                       

                      My fixes worked for me. I can only offer them as a suggestion to try. I'm still curious to know if you can switch your box from IR to RF?

                      • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
                        gabbott2

                        I didn’t get an owner’s manual with my Genie…just a small booklet with a list of the programs and Tips on how to “do” stuff.

                         

                        So I don’t know if it can be converted from one frequency to another?  I don’t even know what it is on now?

                         

                         

                         

                        I obviously have more experiments to try, while waiting for Directv to resolve this.

                         

                         

                         

                        Try and stay cool up there.  Remember, it’s 3 degrees cooler down here!

          • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
            peds48

            Perhaps in your case, the TV is (was) causing IR interference causing the remote to stop working. changing to RF let use the remote again.  but this has nothing to do with 3D being grey out

        • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
          ano45

          What you are possibly experiencing is what I have seen a few times.  You have to understand how HDMI works to fully understand the problem. Your DirecTV box and your TV communicate over HDMI, with your receiver in the middle.  HDMI is not just a dumb cable, its a two-way cable. The DirecTV box will ask the TV what modes (3D) and what resolutions (1080P, 720P, etc.) it supports, and it will only send these signals if it thinks the TV can decode them. 

           

          Now you have three pieces of equipment you turn on and off. The DirecTV box is actually always on (it never is really off) but the TV and receiver are turned off. Your problem is likely that at the moment the DirecTV box tries to communicate with the TV, it can't. Maybe the receiver is off, maybe the TV is off. The DirecTV box can't verify the info from your TV so its stops supporting it. I do not know exactly when the DirecTV box but its likely when you turn it "on."

           

          So try this. DON'T turn the DirecTV box "on" UNTIL AFTER the receiver and TV are both on. The DirecTV box should be turned on LAST. If you do that, it might fix your problem. There are also a few devices out there that will save the handshake information, even when your TV is off. A device called Doctor HDMI is one of those devices.

           

          See if this works for you?

        • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
          ano45

          This is not likely a DirecTV issue, its an issue likely cause by HDMI which was never fully thought out as much as it should have been. See my other post, or type "HDMI Handshake" in Google and you can read all about the problem.

  • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
    ano45

    I have a Denon and a new DirecTV HR-44, and I can tell you, operating that Denon is overly complex, and i am an electrical engineer.

     

    First I recommend not using optical cables unless you are not passing the HDMI through the Denon.  Why might you NOT want to pass the HDMI through the Denon? We'll for example if your Denon does not support HDMI 1.4, then it won't pass 3D signals and if you have a 3D TV, you will need to bypass the Denon, send the HDMI directly from the DirecTV box to the TV, and run optical cables from the DirecTV to the Denon.

     

    Now back to audio settings.  Turn Digital Dolby ON in the DirecTV box.  Under the Denon HDMI Audio settings, set it to AMP. Under the HDMI Video settings turn Video Scaling to OFF. You do NOT want your Denon scaling the video.

     

    the DirecTV box will encode for Digital Dolby all the time, so the Digital Dolby light on the left side of the Denon should be lit.  The Denon should also show its receiving 5 speaker audio on the display.  The Denon is smart enough to know what to do now, but it can be screwed up because so many settings can override it.  You want to turn OFF the Denon soundfields and the Denon should be displaying the words DIGITAL DOLBY in addition to the digital dolby symbol. Don't use the DIRECT mode, because in my experience, that loses your rear speakers.   I also agree with others, doing a complete reset of the Denon is not a bad idea. It has so many settings so deep down its easy to get it screwed up.

     

    Also as others have said, not all channels have digital dolby encoded for, no matter what the guide says and no matter what the lights on the Denon say.

  • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
    ano45

    I am in Phoenix. I have no idea why the remote would matter. I have the same equipment, HR-44 and minis. The small remotes they give you are IR and RF. (They actually use RF4CE which is a new Zigbee standard, which is pretty cool.) I have mine set to FR, and if I put it behind the chair and press buttons it works so i know its using RF, but I have another Harmony remote which uses IR and that works fine as well.  So it looks like the IR/RF setting only controls which type the remote uses, but the receiver picks up IR no matter what.

     

    All I can say on the 3D is if it works fine when you plug your HDMI cable directly into the TV and it doesn't work when you plug it into a receiver then the TV, the problem is the receiver. Either not passing 3D (It needs to be HDMI 1.4) or if its turned off its not passing the 3D signals. I don't use 3D, so I can't help exactly with that but it seems totally normal if the DirecTV box doesn't THINK you have 3D, then it grays out the 3D options. And the only way it would know if your TV supports 3D, is if it communicated with it.

    • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
      gabbott2

      Yes, but even when I have my system hooked up; DVR-HDMI-stereo-HDMI-TV, everything works fine, after I use the red, re-set button on the DVR.

       

      And, it stays “fine” for about two days (as long as I leave the DVR on)…then the 3D channels grey out.  They will also return to “grey” status if I turn the DVR off.

       

      Once I turn off the DVR, the 3D channels will be greyed out until I use the re-set button again.

       

       

       

      So if the culprit is my stereo, how come my 3D channels work fine, after I use the re-set button on the DVR (when I’m running my HDMI cables thru the stereo)?

       

       

       

      I was able to read a few other comments by others on the Forum that were experiencing basically the same problems as I am…but I wasn’t able to figure out how to post my comments to get into that discussion.  Maybe one of them has figured out how to fix this and respond to me???????

       

       

       

      Thanks for the help….

       

      In Marana

      • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
        texasbrit

        First, the IR/RF issue is nothing to do with the 3D channels problem. As has been posted, this is almost certainly an IR interference issue. If you have an LCD TV with backlight, the backlight power supply on some TVs generates a lot of IR interference and this can overwhelm the IR sensor on the TV. When the content on the display of the TV changes, the backlight level also changes, which is why you see this problem when the channels in the guide are all greyed out.  The solution to the remote problem is to reduce the backlight level, desensitize the IR sensor by putting a piece of painters tape over it (yes, this actually works for most people!) or the best solution, go to RF.

         

        The 3D channels issue is as has been posted almost certainly an HDMI problem. Several of the posts talk about this. HDMI as a protocol is unfortunately a mess, implementations are inconsistent and devices often don't work properly with each other. (You'll see HDMI-related posts in forums for Dish, cable, FIOs and even video game controllers) The HR24 and the HR34 probably use slightly different chipsets and so behave slightly differently. The HR34 also enforces the HDCP copy protect protocol on all channels, unlike the other DVRs. In this case, the A/V receiver isn't always passing to the Hr34 the signals it needs to see the A/V receiver as a legitimate 3D destination.

        If you look at the various forums, you will find these HDMI issues are most often posted in relation to the Denon/Marantz A/V receivers. Coincidence? I don't know. The receivers are made by the same company and I assume have the same HDMI implementation. In almost every case, connecting the DirecTv box directly to the TV works OK.

         

        Some things you can try.

        Don't power the Hr34 off, there's no good reason to do that anyway. I have five DVRs and never power them off. It's well known that HDMI issues on startup/shutdown are the most common.

        Minimize the handshakes between the devices. For example, go into the Hr34 menu, set the allowed resolutions to just 1080i and make sure native is set to "off".

        Set HDMI control to off, again just to minimize the number of handshakes.

        • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
          gabbott2

          You’ve given me some options to try (with my 3D channels “greyed out” issue):

           

          My stereo is a Yamaha RX-A710.

           

           

           

          Yes (so far at least), connecting the Genie directly to my Sharp TV, seems to solve the 3D channel issue.  Although I haven’t kept it set up that way for very long, as I’m still trying to get things to work, when I run the HDMI cables thru my stereo.  When I eliminate the HDMI cable thru my stereo, I lose the “TV on-screen” guide information from my Yamaha stereo, when I’m doing stuff with the stereo.  This I’d like to retain.

           

           

           

          I’ve tried leaving the HR34 on.  This worked for a day or so, and I thought that I had “discovered” a fix.  But after a few days, the 3D channels go grey again, even when leaving the DVR on.

           

           

           

          I’m going to try your suggestion to set my DVR to just the 1080i resolution today.

           

           

           

          Where/how do I turn “Native” off?  Is this thru my DVR or TV?

           

          Where/how do I turn HDMI off?  Without the HDMI, what differences will I experience with controls and watching TV?

           

           

           

          Thanks

        • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
          gabbott2

          Update;

           

          I stumbled upon the Native option while I was looking for my Resolution options.  It was already Off (Native).

           

          I re-set my Resolutions to just the 1080i.  My 3d channels were still grayed out.  I turned off/on my DVR and the channels were still grayed out.

           

           

           

          Then I used the DVR re-set button, and when the picture came back, so did all of my 3D channels.  But, they will again gray out once I either turn off my DVR, or after about two days of leaving it on.

           

           

           

          How do set my HDMI Control to off?

          • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
            etype2

            Ha! From 113 to 110 degrees F, right. :-)

             

            To find the IR/RF setting: go to setting>remote. You should see the IR/RF screen. Select RF and see if that helps things.

             

            The Yamaha menu will be different. Look for something to do with HDMI settings in the menu. The Marantz calls it "HDMI CONTROL"

             

            Do you have active or passive 3D? If you have active try this. Turn on active glasses, wear them, even if your 3D channels are grayed out, exit out of the menu first, then select channel 107 and see what happens. The 3D channel may come up in 3D.

             

            Or, first go to the TV menu and activate the 3D test, then exit and try the above procedure and see what happens. Activating the 3D test patern on the Sharp seems to give my system a kick start when the 3D channels gray out.

  • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
    sdj142857

    I have the same exact 3D issue with the new HR44. I have read through all of these comments, tried all suggestions, tried customer service (who didn't even know there was an issue) and still have the same problem.


    To the people who blame the A/V equipment: You are forgetting the OP stated his setup had not changed. I have the same situation. Every piece of equipment and cable I am using is exactly the same as I used when I had the HR24, and I never had any issues. The only piece of the configuration that has changed is the Directv receiver. Given my experiments, I am inclined to think this is indeed a "handshake" issue. But the failure point in the handshake originates from the Directv box, not the A/V. Saying it works when plugging directly into the tv does not prove the A/V is at fault, it only proves that the Directv receiver works with the tv. And even at that, I doubt anyone has left the box connected to the tv for any appreciable length of time. It could be the box loses the channels after a few days even when plugged directly into the tv. Regardless, it is what it is, and the Directv box is the only thing that has changed in my setup.

     

    I had the Directv tech who installed my HR44 bring me an RC71 remote. This did not solve the problem. In fact, it made it worse. With the old remote, I could at least power down only the tv and A/V, which means I could get at least two or three days before the channels greyed out (they grey out immediately if the HR44 is put into standby and brought back up, but they grey out at random if the Directv receiver is never put in standby). But the RC71 powers down everything, which means if I hit "off", I am going to be doing a receiver reset when I hit "on". There is also the not-so-insignificant matter of the RC71 only controlling the tv and A/V, which means no more universal remote for bluray, etc. What the RC71 DID change, is my ability to get a response from the receiver when the 3D channels ARE working. With the old remote, I had to get two inches away from the receiver and aim just right in order to get anything to happen, and even then I usually had to hit a button 5 or 6 times. This was true despite the fact that it is an RF remote that works perfectly fine pointing in the opposite directon on non-3D channels. The RC71 does not have this problem.

    So now, I have gone from 1 remote to 2: One remote to power up/down the tv and A/V, and use for the bluray, and one remote for general use while watching Directv, and use during 3D broadcasts. And the 3D issue remains unchanged....

     

    Since the HR44 is so new, I can only wait and hope a patch is eventually sent out to correct the issue. Since the issue is, in the vast maority of cases, connected to a Denon A/V, I can only assume some change to the Directv software needs to be done that will bring the "handshake" between it and the Denon back to where it was with the HR24. In the meantime, it is like being back in the 70's with antenna tv, trying to get that one station to come in. Having an entire, time-consuming process to follow just to watch television is way more trouble than it should be. I am reminded of an old Married With Children episode, where they "assume FOX viewing positions".

    • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
      texasbrit

      A couple of things.

      First, the remote you were using before the RC71 would NOT control the HR44 in RF, only in IR so what you were seeing was the classic signs of IR interference as I described in my post. The HR44 uses a different RF protocol and only the RC71 will control it in RF

       

      Second, just because the HR24 worked OK with the Denon and the HR44 does not, that does not mean the HR44 is at fault.  Because the HDMI protocol was so badly designed, and there are no tests that manufacturers can go through that "prove" compliance, there are different chips and implementations and they don't always work together. 3D makes it worse since there's more info to be passed through the Denon than regular signals.  If you had an HR44 working OK with your TV, and you then bought a Denon and had this problem,  you would be telling us the Denon was at fault. As I posted, Denon/Marantz have had more HDMI issues with set-top box interoperability than any other manufacturers. The manufacturers of the HR44 will say that their HDMI/3D implementation works fine with the Tvs, and with other A/V receivers like Sony, Pioneer and Panasonic , so it's the Denon that is at fault. I don't know which of these is the true story.  But you are unlikely to see any "fix" from either DirecTv or Denon since most of the protocol is implemented in hardware not software.

       

      As we've posted, you can always run HDMI directly from the HR44 to the Tv and then audio from the HR44 to the Denon.  The HR44, or for that matter the TV will do just as good a job upscaling 480i/p to 1080 as the Denon does, I bet you can't tell the difference.

      • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
        sdj142857

        I appreciate your time in responding.

         

        How the remotes transmit is of little consequence to me, in this instance. The RC71 works when the receiver is showing 3D, while the 65 is painfully slow to the point of uselessness. I am passing that information along to people who have read previous posts and think that by getting a new remote, it will solve the 3D problem. My point was: It will not. And on top of it not solving the problem, it will create new ones, depending on the user's setup.

         

        There is not a single thing that a person "can always" do. In this case, the way wiring and cables are run makes it non cost-effective to do as you describe. Also, it is fairly presumptuous of you to assume you know what I would or would not "be telling you" had circumstances been different. It is a moot point, anyway: Things are not that way, they are the way they are.

         

        You are probably right in that neither manufacturer will bother to spend money on researching and correcting the issue. It is just frustrating because I would not have expected that I would need to use an older piece of equipment to have a satisfactory customer experience. I wish now that I had held on to my HR24, which I owned, not leased. But technology is supposed to advance, or so they say....

    • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
      etype2

      Setting my Marantz receiver HDMI Control to off solved my audio issue. The RC 71 remote solved the old remote issue not working in 3D mode, but I can longer power down the receiver with the RC 71. Last Saturday, my 3D channels grayed out once again, but I quickly fixed that by activating my Sharp TV 3D test signal. That has the effect of "forcing" the TV to switch to 3D mode. Once that is done, I simply punch in one of the 3D channels and they come up and no longer grayed out in the menu. Since last Saturday, the 3D channels have not grayed out.

       

      I don't like the idea of connecting the HDMI cable from the HR 44 to the TV. I loose flexibility, the ability of my receiver to upscale content and the on screen display from the receiver and possibly other things I haven't thought about.

       

      I have been communicating with my Direct TV Case Manager for almost two weeks. She asked an engineer about the 3D gray out problem. A direct quote from the engineer: "I am aware of this problem because I see it on my own home system. The Direct TV box is smart and if you wait a few moments, it will eventually communicate through the HDMI cable, it's just slow in doing this." I'm not sure if I agree with this answer. I would like to see a software upgrade, if that will fix the problem that I and others have. The Direct TV HR 44 should be made compatible with all equipment and Beta tested for longer periods of time before releasing onto the public.

       

      Now get ready for the upcoming HDMI 2.0 standard coming soon.

      • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
        texasbrit

        As I said, you don't really need the Marantz to upscale content from the DirecTv box. The DirecTv box can do it, or your TV can do it.  Anyway I am pleased the removal of HDMI control solved the audio problem. As you found out, even the people at Marantz do not know their own equipment.

         

        There is no way any DirecTv receiver (or any equipment for that matter) can be tested with every possible TV and A/V receiver. If the people developing the HDMI spec (and the 3d specs also)  had done a good job, there would be test rigs and test procedures which people could use to test out new products for compliance.  They did not do that,  so we are stuck with this problem.

         

        I live in hope that HDMI 2.0 will be better defined and that there will be compliance tests but I have my doubts.

        • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
          ano45

          Yeah, I also would hold little hope that a DirecTV update will "fix" this issue. You have no proof its even a DirecTV problem other than it worked fine with another DVR. That older DVR likely wasn't as strict on the copy protection enforcement, and there is a good possibility that it was the older DirecTV DVR that actually wasn't enforcing the rules, so technically your old DVR was the one not working. And as I said earlier, your Denon receiver is likely not allowing the latest copy protection handshaking to pass. You just didn't have the problem before because the DVR wasn't enforcing the copy protection. The new DirecTV DOES enforce it, which maybe explains why it isn't working now. DirecTV will not "fix" that unfortunately.

           

          Also you are not loosing any functionality by connecting the DirecTV DVR to the TV, assuming that you have enough HDMI jacks for other devices. You should NOT be upscaling with the DirecTV  DVR and certainly you should NOT be upscaling with the Denon amp. In the DirecTV box, in video setup, set the video to "Native" and set the resolutions that your TV supports, likely all of them. In the Denon, turn OFF and video scalling. If all this still doesn't give you what you want, look into a device called a Doctor HDMI. It stores the EDID value from your TV, so no matter if your receiver is on or off, or if your TV is on or off, the DirecTV box will always receive back the correct handshake signal.  If it was me, I'd just hook the DirecTV box to the TV directly, and connect the optical cable from the DirecTV to your Denon, but its your choice.

      • Re: Genie HR 44/500 3D and 5.1 audio not communicating properly
        gabbott2

        I’ve been too busy working on other more important matters around the house, so I haven’t tried any of the many recommended “fixes”, to my channel grayed out situation.

         

         

         

        But, so far my 3D channels have not grayed out for about five days….I’ve just left the DVR on.  Initially this did not work, as the channels grayed out anyway, after a day or so.  So as of now, I’m not in a real rush to try other fixes; my HDMI cable still runs thru my Yamaha stereo, and then to my new Sharp TV.  As long as this holds up, I’m good…and I’ll just wait for the software upgrade from DIRECTV, like many others.