DECA/BB or DECA not required for WHDVR

While WHDVR can be made to work with non-DECA networks, including wireless (although generally poorly), DECA performs better in this application and perhaps more importantly is the only method DIrecTV supports officially. It would be nearly impossible for DIrecTV to support the nearly endless combinations of network equipment that are possible. The DECA system gives them a well defined setup and  requires minimal training of their installers. One simple connection between the BB DECA and the customer's network is all that is needed. Anyone is free to experiment with their own setup, but is you want something supported by DirecTV you have to do it their way.

Networking, whether implemented through Coaxial modulation (DECA) or in its appropiate manner using Ethernet still uses TCP/IP protocols. You can't reinvent the wheel here with DirecTV's DECA Modulation. In other words their setup makes the implemntation and use of Ad-Hoc networking easier for the customer. You cannot say DECA performs better then a traditional layer-3 network without establishing the hardware profile of the network. Without getting into details, I can tell you that my network out performs the DECA setup simply based on the hardware profile I have implemented in my household.

I agree with you when it comes to the support model offered by DirecTV which is probably why DirecTV made a decision to route (excuse the pun) customers through the DECA setup. Once again I'd like to note that when you are dealing with networking, the logistics behind networking are not reworked, or redefined by your hardware profile. The same Layer 2 & 3 configurations are apparent all the way up to Layer 6 (This is from the OSI model), however your Layer 1 configuration can certainly be different. As a network engineer, I can tell you that DirecTV has only created a workaround for a pre-exisitng environment.

With the above in mind, I wouldn't recommend the home networking solution to a novice or someone using a simple SOHO or Small Office, Home Office (Linksys, Belkin, Retail acquired) router. Also note the DECA setup resides OUTSIDE the configuration of the Receiver thus relying on TCP/IP Networking to Share and Transmit video across either a traditional multi-layer setup or the Ad-Hoc DECA setup DirecTV has conifgured.

Thanks for your feedback.

-Moose

Moose/sirkgm14vg,

Welcome back to the forums!!!! I definitely recall some of your earlier posts and as just displayed by your extremely detailed technical interpretation of the DECA/SWiM network solution and/or regular home networks for utilizing the DirecTV network features you are just the guy to help out some of the users(about 20 or 30 at my last count) that have "tangled messes" of home networks and can't get On Demand, Media Share or DirecTV2PC to work. Believe me.....nothing short of a network engineer is much value to some of these poor folks although a few of us try:0(

Just try to keep most of your suggestions "at the layman's level" because.....WHOOOOSH.....that's the sound of most of your LAN explanations going right over my head:0)

What you are describing of course works, and works well.  Many of us who were fully networked before or during the Beta period of this service are still using the traditional Cat5 Ethernet to router setup quite successfully.

However, there are a lot of folks who do not wish to run cat 5 cables to every box, and for them Directv instituted the Whole Home DVR system.  As you may be aware, it uses the coax signal cable to stream the signal from box to box, and uses a BB/DECA interface to bridge between the coax network and the LAN.  A single connection networks all of the HD boxes to the LAN.  Legacy HD boxes require a DECA module, 24 series boxes do not.

The point of my reply to you is that both systems work fine, but if you or I are to properly advise a poster, we need to know which system he is using and to make sure they do not attempt to use an Ethernet cable in an attempt to connect the Whole Home DVR network to their router.  If a 24 series box is involved, the cable will shut down the Whole House system.

In conclusion the sum total of your original post was discussed ad infinitum when Beta was in play and there is no debate required.

Totally agree dcd - And of course I try to focus my solutions and replies in layman terms to users who are simply looking for "a solution" to their already frustrating problem... But of course I'm always digging deep and have found that DirecTV goes about their solutions in a very "typical" manner but falls short because they play the "Service Provider" card... ie. propietary.

My reply to sungam is simply, DECA has no advatange over home netwokring, except as means to meet an end for non-networked homes. Its as simple as that, and I always wear my Network Hat when it comes to communications, especially wwith WH-DVR. As for the HR-24, I'm trying to convince DirecTV to send me a HR-24 and thats when I will shine cause I will figure out why the HR-24 is at first, unavailable on a pre-existing network. A Fluke handheld (read: a Networking Guy's Monkey Wrench) will determine what that NIC is actually doing on the HR-24 out of the box. There's another post reply I have explaining how its probably configured for DECA setup at first.

We will debunk this stuff and I'll keep a keen eye out there for folks looking to do Home Network over DECA. It's definitely "which shoe fits" scenario but "adding on stuff is just not a viable solution in my own opinion.

I'll start crawling through and see I can find some answer to users who have complete "hit the wall".

Thanks!

-Moose

sirkgm14vg,

For your edification, when I had DirecTV enable my MRV when WHDVR went live(insisting on staying with my "unsupported" BETA home network configuration), I took advantage of upgrading an old Hughes SD TIVO for an additional HD DVR. To my surprise, instead of shipping me a refurbished HR20/21/22/23, they shipped me a brand spanking new HR24(still had the shrink wrap on the faceplate, and by far the purtiest HD DVR DirecTV has ever had:0). Seeing how I was connecting this to my existing "home network"(and knowing from the forums that the HR24 had a built-in DECA), I asked some questions of the CSR(specifically whether the HR24 needed a BBC module because the latter HR2x models had not) and he told me NO!!! Subsequently, I posted that I was hooking up a HR24 to my system and the TECHKNOWGUIDE's told me YES...it needs a BBC(unless you have a SWiM system...which I do not) and I believe someone mentioned the ethernet connection should be made either prior to powering up the HR24 or to do a red button reset if not. Indeed, I connected the cat5e ethernet run to my router and HR24(as well as connecting a 1.5 TB eSATA drive on that puppy, like I had on my HR20) before I ever powered it up. And VOILA, when the DVR came up and the CSR on the phone authorized it the new eSATA was formatted for use and the HR24 was connected to my network immediately. Sooooo, the HR24/H24 boxes are easily configured to a "home network" if you have a "live" router connection to their ethernet port before powering them up for the first time. And in addition to it's "good looks", the HR24 is "lightning fast" and the internal temp never exceeds 104 degrees. "Almost" makes me want to trade in my HR20-700(except it has an OTA tuner built in and the HR24 requires the additional USB AM-21 tuner). In my opinion, the HR24 is the best box they've ever marketed. But unless you upgrade to a DECA/SWiM the likelihood of getting one from D*(I lucked out and got one in the "first days of MRV go-live", because I think their shelves were full of them in anticipation of a wave of WHDVR installations). But maybe you can get one from a online retailer(BTW, since you were on the forums, D* has pulled Best Buy and other brick & mortars from distributing their equipment).

Moose,  I covered this in a reply to you in another forum that you may not have read yet.  The answer to this question is simple.  The HR24 and H24 have built in DECA modules.  Any DECA module utilizes the Ethernet capabilities of a receiver ot create the network via coax.  In the case of the 24 models, the Ethernet is default connected internally to the built in DECA module.  Connecting a "live" Ethernet cable to the HR24's Ethernet port and doing a red button reset moves the connection from the internal DECA module to the external port.  It would obviously not be desirable to have the external and DECA module using the Ethernet at the same time because it could easily create a network loop.

On non 24 models, the external DECA module physically uses the external Ethernet port of the receiver, so dual use is physically blocked.

So i recently had whole home HD DVR service installed, HD DVR and one extra receiver.  I was told to hook up the Ethernet cable and do the red button reset and the network (ON Demand) was connected, but the whole home network got messed up.  I unhooked and reset, unplugged again and things are back working, but I was wondering if it is possible to do On Demand and Whole House DVR.  I read in another forum about a DECA module.  I have one SWIM switch downstairs.  Is it possible to hook this up myself, or do I need the installer to install something I don't have?

You could do it yourself but you would have to buy the necessary equipment, which should have been provided in the first place. As you have read elsewhere and discovered yourself, you cannot connect to the Internet the way the tech told you and you need a proper 'Broadband DECA' instead. Since this is a new/recent installation, you should call DirecTV and have them complete the installation properly.

OK, here's my mess (installed 8/10):

HR24 (in home theater, CAT5 to Powerline 85Mbps to router)

H24 (in living room, CAT5 to Airport Express Dual-band "N" to router)

SWiM 5

BB/DECA (attached to router and tangle of new cable downstairs, one green light and one flashing yellow)

I cannot get a decent stream from the HR24 to the H24 over the present ethernet system (it stutters). I could upgrade the downstairs connection to another Airport Express. But I'm supposing the DECA is the better way to go. I don't know how to fix it, and the installer clearly didn't understand it either. I was told by the installer that the DECA was for "watching my HR24 on my PC".

Now, I'm not a network engineer, but I'm not a novice either. But wiring up this catastrophe is a bit beyond my skills. Anyone want to let me know how this should be done without dealing with the horror that D* customer service dept. is?

Starty by disconnecting the Cat 5 cables from the HR24 and H24, then reset them both. The only connection you need to your home network is through the BB DECA module.

The DECA module connects the DirecTV DECA network to your network and the Internet for things like On Demand. However, by plugging the Cat 5 cables into the HR24 and H24 you've completely disabled the DECA network and you're using your network for WHDVR instead.

To expand a bit, the H24 and HR24 have built-in DECA, so together they form a private network for streaming video over the satellite coax. The BB DECA ties that network to your home network and the Internet to support things like OnDemand downloads, DIRECTV2PC, TV Apps and Media Share. The broadband connection is not needed at all just for WHDVR and MRV.

Connecting an Ethernet device to the Ethernet ports on the H/HR24 receivers disables the internal DECA. With the Cat 5 cables connected you're using your network rather than the DECA coax network to stream video. In your case the problem is compounded by the use of wireless and powerline, both of which are known to perform poorly for WHDVR. Here's a diagram of how a representative system should look.

Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! 🙂

10 mins after I looked at your response(s), and I had everything running smoothly. No more jerky picture/sound!

I recorded the Arena Football Playoff game last night between the Iron and the Spokane Shock (since my last name is Shock, and I'm from Spokane, I don't miss a game lol), and I'm now able to watch the game upstairs in the living room with a picture equal to that down in the Theater room!

Thanks for your assist.

Here's my situation. I am new to D* just was installed on the 12th. I asked the tech about internet connection for On Demand but he said with the MRV it was not possible. Is there a workaround for me to have both Internet connection on my receivers as well as MRV. I have an HR-24 and H24 receivers. Wireless Cisco router in the computer room

If you read this entire thread you'll know all there is to know about connecting your system to your router.  The short of it is to call Directv and order the TV Intenet Connection Service.  The installer was dead wrong, but you cannot connect the system in the conventional way.