Multiple DVR's - Multiple Routers

Question

I have 2 HR21's and a H23.

Here's how the routers are setup. Internet comes into the house to a DSL modem with 4 port router, a wireless router is hooked to 1 port of the 1st router. A HR21 is hardwired to the wireless router. A 3rd router is hooked to another port on the 1st DSL router, The PC, HR21 and H23 are connected to the 3rd router.

The 2 HR21's can connect to the internet but cannot see each other. Using the Directv2PC app I can see the HR21 that is on the same router but cannot see the one on the 2nd router.

All routers have DHCP's set to not overlap. Both HR-21's have static IPs not in the DHCP ranges.

Anybody have a way to get these DVR's to see each other? Do i not have the routers set up properly?

testerx · Answer

This is probably a good example of why DirecTV wants no part of DIY network setups. Is everything on the same subnet and are all the subnet masks set properly?

dcd · Answer

Some of the problem here is poor equipment selection. If you had but a single router and used an Ethernet switch to expand that one router (as opposed to a second router) to supply additional ports if needed, there would be no conflict between the two subnets. The Ethernet switches ports are total clones of the router to which it is connected.

greywolf · Answer

I have 13 devices in my home network running happily off one router.

iamqnow · Answer

And to DCD. Wow, suprised anything works well with that set-up. I have 1 router and 2 switches, each switch off the router to rooms with multiple connections. Never a problem. A little while back, until I could run another longer ethernet cable, I had a switch on a run from another switch. That's not supposed to be a good idea but I never had an issue. I did make that run and eliminated the daisy chain switching. That multiple router set-up is scary.

greywolf · Answer

I have some devices daisy chained through three switches without a hiccup if you include the switch in the router.

hmcmott · Answer

Home routers normally use the 192.168.x.x internal IP range with a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0. The standard 255.255.255.0 mask can handle 256 computers. One router should handle all the DHCP and the other routers act as wireless access points or switches.

Unfortunately some wireless home routers don't want to act as access points which could make wireless access tricky. Static IP's for the wireless machines in the same IP range and subnet mask of the main router may help.

Different subnet masks can be used to intentionally separate networks or change the size of the subnet.

Normal rule of thumb in "daisy chaining" or "hops" is no more than three hops or computers at the end of the line won't "see" the others.

Also CAT5 traditionally had a 300 foot limit.

mechtriton · Answer

Maybe I should clarify the setup. My house is prewired with cat5e. No run is more than 150 feet. 1st router is in the basement and feeds off to the prewired outlets. The 2nd router(wireless) is on the first floor. It is feed out of the wall. It supplies internet to the DVR, Wii, PS3 and 2 wireless laptops. 3rd router is on the second floor, again it is feed out of the wall. It feeds 2 desktop computers, and DVR and HD Receiver. 1 router feeding all devices is not possible but I appreciate the input.

So setting up the first router for DHCP and setting the others to switches should allow the DVRs to see each other since they will be on the same subnet? Am I understanding that correctly?

dan1son · Answer

You only need one router where your modem is. It routes data from your internal network (the wires in your house) to the external network (in your case the internet via DSL or cable). I can go into more detail on how that works, but that's essentially all it does.

If your modem and router is in the same location your feedpoints are for the in house wiring (I'd imagine they all terminate at the same location in your house like the basement, office, closet, etc.) you can make all those in-wall connections hot by connecting those ends to your router or to a switch that's connected to the router if you have more connections needed than ports on the router.

Once that's done, the place where the DVR, Wii, and PS3 are you put another small switch plugged into the in-wall network jack and then to each device. If you only need one device connected to a wall socket you just plug it straight in. No need for another router, just a simple switch. The router also serves the wireless connections for your laptops from wherever that is located.

You can probably use the routers as switches and accomplish the same thing. Assuming they support that. If they're in router mode, the WAN port on the router will be on the same subnet as your internet service router, but the LAN ports on the secondary routers will be on another subnet. The DVRs are expecting eachother to be on the same subnet.

Networking is fun... 🙂

dcd · Answer

mechtriton, You're misunderstanding the various suggestions that you selected the wrong equipment. You apparently think if you need more than four output ports you need to add an additional router, that is a false assumption. Your network only requires a single router and will work much better than your three router setup. Rather than the subsequent routers you use Ethernet switches. These switches typically have 4 extra ports, but larger models are available. Having three routers in the same network is a recipe for malfunction.

amfortas · Answer

The only application where I wouldn't use a single router and switches is if I couldn't install a wired connection between the router and switches. In those cases I'd use a router paired with wireless access points.

Having more than one router (setup in a router configuration) is problematic even for the most experienced admin. As I have always said, "keep it simple".

dan1son · Answer

Even needing to connect switches over wireless you can use a wireless access point (or the main router if it has wireless) and a wireless bridge. That still keeps everything on both ends of the wireless link on the same subnet. I use a setup like that in multiple rooms since it's nearly impossible to run wires where I need them in my house. Ironically, I use a router for this purpose 🙂 (setup in bridge mode), but they do sell bridges with multiple ports that work just as well.

You don't want to deviate outside of one subnet in a house unless you have very specific reasons for needing to do so (I can't think of any). Home routers aren't intended for routing between subnets. They try to act as a firewall which blocks traffic from subnet to subnet. You CAN setup manual routes in the routing tables on most routers and get it working... but you need to know what you're doing, or you can totally hose everything else.

Moral of the story is networking isn't simple, and it's easy to set it up wrong and difficult to set it up correctly. The big box retailers make it easy to buy the wrong stuff (their sales people probably don't know networking either). The current batch of home networking stuff makes it incomparably easier than it used to be, but if you need to get fancy, it's still difficult.

dbindley · Answer

You should never need more than one router. One router and then if your house is hard wired with cat5 or cat6, use switches. The extra routers you have were a waste of money.
If your house is not hardwired then you need to bridge network segments wirelessly and unless you know what you are doing, you shouldn't attempt to do this. Like everything hire a professional and pay the 75 or 100 dollars to have it done right.

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