New gui issues

Yep, I feel your pain.....what I discovered, though, is that you have to look in the guide for that local channel and you will discover that the actual program that is currently being shown on your local HD channel is not "HD programming". The new software apparently "senses" either (a)non-HD content being broadcast on a HD channel and ignores the screen format "Stretch" setting if you are using it giving the results you saw......or (b)HD content recorded in your HD DVR's Playlist when that content is being delivered to a device(TV, DVD Recorder, etc.) over the HD DVR's SD outputs(either the RCA Video out or the S-Video out) and the software actually changes your box's HDTV menu Resolution settings to "make the DVR/Receiver a SD DVR/Receiver" and output all content as 480p. When (b) happens the software actually displays a message stating that either your TV is not a HDTV or you are not using HDMI and advises you to hold down the exit button on your remote until it tells you the receiver has been changed to a SD receiver. To be honest, I don't like that AT ALL because I record a LOT of HD content recorded on my HD DVR's to a DVD Recorder via S-Video output. And I don't like it changing my HDTV settings where when I am done I have to re-setup my DVR with the previous Resolution settings to "turn it back into a HD DVR". This is VERY annoying and I'm really not certain that the DVD's I am recording with the DVR set to a maximum 480p output is the same "recorded" video quality on the DVD as before when I am recording something in my Playlist that was recorded at 1080i. I hope a TECHKNOWGUIDE will read this post and "calm my fears" and/or describe a workaround to having to re-setup my HDTV menu Resolution settings everytime I switch between "watching" HD content over my HDMI output versus "watching" HD content over my RCA/S-Video outputs. and.....IMHO, I'm not overly inpressed with the "format" of the new "HD gui" compared to the previous one as far as ability to "see/read" listed content in my Playlist. And it seems that they have again re-located the "live channel pip" and other info when in the Playlist and taken away the movie's "DVD cover" icon display(which I REALLY miss) as well as. Also, it seems that NONE of the "Cast and Crew" members displayed under that selection have any photos of the actor/actress, birthdate, etc. info or even what character in the movie they played(just says "actor/writer/director, etc.). This gui(in respect to the Playlist information is in my opinion a "huge step "BACKWARD". Normally, I'm not a complainer/whiner, but so far I really do NOT like the new "HD gui". Anybody agree????????

dj:

The easiest workaround to the fact that the new GUI cannot output itself via the SD OUTPUTS when it's set for 720p/1080i is to get a "Component-to-Composite" or "Component-to-SVideo" video converter.  They're reasonably priced from places like Monoprice.  With this converter you don't have to worry about resetting the GUI's resolution output when you're recording to your DVD Recorder.  

litzdog911,

Thanks for that "workaround" suggestion. I'll look into what a Component-to-Svideo converter and Component-to-Composite converter will run me. Guess another problem I may face is I'll need both(S-Video for my DVD Recorder and Composite for my VCR) and the HR20 only has one Component out. But, I may have a workaround for that too if any of the converters have one component in and multiple S-Video out because my VCR actually has the capability of S-Video input for recording(which may give a little better recording than composite input anyway). I figured if I whined here on the forums, someone would have a suggestion:0)

Thanks!!!

I think it behoves us to keep in mind that whenever there is a major change to any device, the previously used jury rigged workarounds won't work any more.  A bit like buying a newer car and finding out the bumper hitch you previously used to haul your trailer no longer has a place to attach.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011407&p_id=7114&seq=1&format=2

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011411&p_id=8667&seq=1&format=2

Actually, I found a Component-to-Svideo....AND...Composite(simultaneously) converter for $169. Kinda pricey, but I'll have to weigh out it's worth to resolve the new software's anomaly(yes, since the previous version of software "did not care" that I was outputting a 1080i movie from my Playlist via S-Video, the new software "should not care" that I am outputting the new HD GUI vis S-Video, so I do consider this a "non-essential change"...aka bug....aka undesirable new feature:0)

IMHO, this may really be another move in the direction of discoraging/preventing making copies of any content(even in SD) and only "a fly on the wall at DirecTV" would know exactly what(who) prompted this change. Can you spell DMCA/HDCP/etc. consipracy theory:0)

A link to the converter I found follows:

http://www.svideo.com/ypbpr2svideo.html

It's none of those things; no conspiracy. The DVR apparently does not have the capability to render an HD 1080 and an SD 480 version of the GUI simultaneously, so the only way to get a GUI on the SD output is to have all the outputs at SD.  It's a chip limitation, and there would probably be a performance issue also.

The latest beta version of the GUI has a one-button change from HD GUI to SD GUI so it is a little less of a problem.

texasbrit,

Thanks for the technical clarification(although I really wanted to believe Hollywood is out to get me:0)

I may hold out for the Beta version to go national before shelling out $169 as that sounds like it will make it more liveable(I record DVD's/VCR's in "bursts", so it's not like I'm changing all the time). I'm gonna have to look closely next time I get the "hold down the EXIT button" message becase I "think" it came back after that with "instructions" on how to revert back to the original HD Resolution settings(may have involved subsequent usage of the EXIT button on the remote). Next time I encounter it I'll post the instructions message for others.

P.S.

Last time I read one of the "FBI Anti-Piracy messages" when watching a recent movie I think that even though I am making copies for my own personal use.......I'm already in trouble:0)

Yeah, it's all about keeping the HD GUI speed as fast as possible. The early testing proved that trying to maintain a simultaneous SD video output slowed down the video processor and hence the overall UI speed.

How could this be accurate if I am only using the svideo output? Yes, I know that I won't get full 1080i/p over svideo but the loss in quality today is very noticeable and replacing hardware to resolve this software problem is not an acceptable solution in my opinion.

Also, what value does having the receiver check the tv/cable provide to the customer?  In my case the answer is that I now have an inferior service from what I had yesterday and will very likely cancel my account unless this software "feature" can be resolved.

If you are only using s-video, then make sure the receiver only has 480i checked as a supported resolution and everything will be just as it was. S-video can only support 480i, so that's all you were getting anyway before the new software. having 720p or 1080i checked was doing nothing

Well, the picture quality is noticeably diminished from yesterday, prior to the update -- as it turns out you can push more than 480i over s-video as it is an analog cable. Analog signals are much more dependent on material quality and length so they aren't quite as hard limited as digital cables which either meet their stated spec or they don't.

Additionally I am not using a tv so the actual display isn't a factor, I am using an HD capture card piped to a 1680x1050 display on one of my Gentoo Linux systems.  When I set the receiver to 720p or 1080i the quality improves and is what I expect, the only problem is that the message that the cable or tv isn't "HD" compatible is displayed when any button on the remote is pressed.

My workaround at the moment for changing channels is disconnecting the s-video cable, punching in the new channel on the remote and then reconnecting the s-video cable.

jg1, the only analog cables capable of carrying 480p is component cables. the message that you are getting is because the new HD GUI cannot be displayed on SD resolution.  the graphics chipset cannot do both guides simultaneously.  the quicker solution is to lower the resolution to 480i or 480p while watching the HD receiver with non-HD cables.  a long term solution is to buy a component to s-video converter.

That doesn't make sense.  If you're using the SVideo output, then you can only get 480i resolution. There should be no difference if you select 720p or 1080i because those only apply for the HD outputs.  As texasbrit pointed out, just uncheck all of the resolution boxes except 480i and you'll be fine.

I don't believe that is completely correct.  As I have been watching this evening using my "workaround" I am noticing different content is coming through at different resolutions when I have the receiver set to 1080i.  For instance, the channel currently coming in is as expected but the previous show was coming in at the lower 480 resolution and had a very large black border around the actual show.  When I set the receiver to either 480p or 480i the picture quality is diminished but at least I can actually use the remote.

What this is at the end of the day is that the software driving the receiver is checking the result of a function call that has probed the outputs and then halts input (remote) processing in the interface with the compatibility message.  This could be fixed if the developers would just disable the particular check or hadn't added that check to the new interface.